in regards to 'bad!fic'

[permetaform]

I must say that even beyond my love certain trashy-slashy-bodice-rippers, even beyond my love of certain pairing fic and certain *rare* pairing fic despite their dubious quality, and even beyond the fact that deep down inside I'm kinda glad that they make my fic look good even in my *worst* days of self-loathing, that I fully, whole-heartedly approve of bad!fic.

I really do; I approve of bad!fic the way people approve of young children and puppy dogs.

There is just such an insane amount of glee and misguided enthusiasm there. They have such utter sputter-inducing seriousness when they try to use 'cum' in an erotic setting. They are unrepentant fantasies. They are neophytic probes of sexuality.

They are badly conjugated vowels.

Very, badly conjugated vowels. (you know, the ones that occur in the throes of orgasmic bliss? yeah, those.)

And I love bad!fic like I do children; which is to say that I sometimes want to strangle them.

Which is also to say that I sometimes want to protect them with all my power.

'Cause you know what? A bad!fic is just a good!fic that hasn't had a good chance to be nudged and prodded and encouraged into something stronger. A bad!fic is a new author's first attempt, or an author's second attempt, or an author's 23rd attempt just before the "Eureka" that will encourage a leap of quality into something better and more lasting and durable. A bad!fic is just something that all authors have written, and if you've never written a bad!fic before?

You're lying.

And this is not to say I wholly disapprove of elitism, because there *are* standards to be upheld. And without due reward, recognition, and publicity towards the cream of the crop, how can one adequately judge any other piece?

Where you'd get into trouble, however, is when bad!fic tries to lump itself in with the good!fic, or in other words, when the writer of one intent (social approval) tries to crossover into the audience of the other intent (literary merit), but methinks that is a post for another day.

Anyhoo, the appearance of bad!fic delights me: it means that the seeds of good fic is already set in place, that people are writing, thinking, being *involved* as fans instead of simply lurking and taking from fandom. It means that eventually all the stars will be in alignment again someday, and that someday we'll have an immense creative burst from many many writers of tons and tons of blindingly hotgoodintrospective and looooooooooooooooooooooooooong fic like what's happened with the Smallville fandom.

Only hopefully without sinking into the dark sucking pit of blackneverendingANGST that a lot of the Smallville fic dips into...'cause I kinda like happy!fic too. So there. ::sticks tongue out::

Comments

[rhipowered.livejournal.com]

I'm coming out.
I have freely written MarySue!fic of my own accord. Multiple times.

That is all.

[permetaform]

ah, then I won't tell you of the Ranma 1/2 MarySue!novel I'd concocted. =) or the Ranma 1/2 RP with gratuitous use of new!shiny!powers...

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[rhipowered.livejournal.com]

Lone Gunmen. And before that, even worse Star Wars Ep I.

[potterwitch.livejournal.com]

I own up. My ff.net account (which I have lost the password to and thus cannot get rid of, evah) contains bad!fic, self-insertion, angst x three billion, and Hermione singing. But you can see where I made the transition from bad!fic to good!fic, or semi-decent!fic--the last fic I wrote on that page (The Night of Treachery) is the only one I'm vaguely proud of. My first non-badfic :^D

Love,
-Powee (http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=25038)

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[permetaform]

I was well nigh unbetable power-wise.

And i had perfect hair.

Purple hair.

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[permetaform]

::grins and glomps::

[billradish.livejournal.com]

In this regard, I'm honest that I've definitely written some wincers...they're still posted even. (however, point them out? fuck no! *buries discretely*)

And I largely agree with you about bad!fic...except that I will point out that there are some bad!fic authors who are writing bad!fic not because of lack of practice or insight, but because they simply don't care enough to improve. So long as someone (or an entire mailing list) is feeding their ego, they usually don't care. They're in the minority I think, but they are there...

[permetaform]

ah yes, but I think they've also provoked at least *some* people into going "I can do better than that!!" (::raises hand sheepishly::)

[billradish.livejournal.com]

*raises leaves as well* Yeah...that too. >_>

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[potterwitch.livejournal.com]

Mhm, I've noticed that too--it used to be that reading bad!fic made me want to write good!fic, though admittedly that was rather rubbish as well. The sole reason I stopped writing bad!fic was that I'd written about the HP trio being stuck in some kind of house-elf universe, and someone came back at me with the comment, "if this is supposed to be an elf universe, where are all the elves?" That was sort of the point at which I twigged and realised a beta might be a good idea :^D

Love,
-Powee

[xoverau.livejournal.com]

There are bad!fic writers who start writing good things? Wow. I thought that was an urban legend.

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

I very much agree with you. One has to write bad!fic to gain experience enough to write good!fic. That's just how it goes. And I can't remember who's journal I read this in, but "no matter what you write, somehow, somewhere you're fulfilling someone's kink."

And you did mean verbs, didn't you? Because I don't think it's possible to conjugate a vowel.

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[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Usually by the time writers start writing well, they're so ashamed of their bad!fic pasts that they bury them. Deep. Every now and again you'll see good!fic writers on their LJ's admitting to songfics they wrote that are still mouldering on ff.net from four years back. If they didn't point specifically to their old writings, you'd never know they were by the same person.

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[xoverau.livejournal.com]

*amazed* I wonder if there's something to that baby crocodile thing.

[shaddyr]

You find the neatest stuff through LJ surfing...

I was reading circe_tigana who mentioned Labyrinth links in elke_tanzer's LJ - where I subsequently found mention of the bad!fic approval here.

And have come to bare my soul, and admit I have written bad!Fic. Actually, Worse!Fic. None of that will ever, *ever* show up on the net, as it's prolly charred remnants in a prairie landfill right now. But, though the worse!fic is gone, some bad!fic remains. My early pretender stuff, mostly.

And I have a soft spot for Mary Sue. I even wrote a Buffy one that I think is not too bad.

I feel better now. *grin*

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[girlpearl]

You weren't thinking of the wisdom of Lore, were you?

[uselessplayback.livejournal.com]

Bad!fic are like evil small children and I'm fairly certain-- nay!--absolutely certain that I've written a few. But those got lost on some mailing list somewhere. I don't even have the same computer or email address so they exist in space with little or no correlation to myself.

Sometimes I miss them. But only sometimes. ^_-


On the other hand I do have some bad!fancomics from, like, eighth grade lying about somewhere. I'm not really ashamed of them because they led to much better comics [both in the writing and drawing department].

[thalia]

http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_339.html

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[permetaform]

vowels. (the multi-syllabic moan of orgasmic bliss?)

=) it get's entertaining after awhile trying to count the number of letters there are in a moan...

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[permetaform]

::raises hand sheepishly:: well, at least I mostly think they're good now....

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[permetaform]

--it used to be that reading bad!fic made me want to write good!fic, though admittedly that was rather rubbish as well.

::giggles:: I've never said that it actually *worked* on your first try.

But yeah, I think the 'beta' instinct is one of the kickers...

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[permetaform]

::grins and hugs:: see! isn't that a relief?? and welcome to the insanity! (watch the mutant plotbunnies! they have teeth! and careful of the random acts of picspam...and those fornicating inanimate objects? just ignore that...::sweatdrop:: aheh)

[penm.livejournal.com]

:D Agreed, except you said it so much better than I could have.

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[permetaform]

absolutely certain that I've written a few. But those got lost on some mailing list somewhere.

heh, lucky. I still know exactly where it lurks on ff.n because I lost my password for it...

And sometimes I go back and read it and cringe, although I'm also half tempted to cannibalize some of it because, hey! might still use this or that concept...

[commodoresexual.livejournal.com]

Long ago did I know the power of the badfic. Sailor Moon was the fandom, and MAN did I Mary Sue.

Hopefully, I have improved since those horrible days.

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[shaddyr]

My plot bunnies have Big! Sharp! Teeth!

I think they will get slong very well the mutant ones.

and those fornicating inanimate objects? just ignore that

Hee!! I must admit, I enjoy certain stories with inanimate objects... Spike/The Coat fic can be fun.

*grin*

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[xoverau.livejournal.com]

Will wonders never cease.

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[xoverau.livejournal.com]

Yes, yes they are.

I thank God that I had nowhere to post my truly bad fic when I was writing it. There was no internet back then. *grin* NO ONE HAS THE EVIDENCE! I can say I was always a GENIUS!

[rashaka.livejournal.com]

kinda side bar: I've always liked "looooooooooooooooooooooooooong fic" best. Comes from reading all those 500-800 page fantasy books in elementry and middle school. So many people assume longer means "better" -- i.e. more difficult to get through and only adults of college level get it. I figured out early on that that's crap and longer just means not only do you get what you want, but you get MORE of it! And MORE AND MORE!

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[permetaform]

I think they will get slong very well the mutant ones.

::giggles and points at icon::

on another note, Spike/Coat? Where?? I've read a Neo/Coat before...

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[permetaform]

ahhh, Sailor Moon. aka. the gateway drug. That was how I segued into Ranma 1/2...

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[permetaform]

awww ::glompity::

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[permetaform]

I figured out early on that that's crap and longer just means not only do you get what you want, but you get MORE of it! And MORE AND MORE!

::grins:: and don't we know it. I think that's part of why HP fandom is so popular and ever volatile-y active, as there are endless amounts of fic.

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[rashaka.livejournal.com]

Good point. It's true, there is no lack of fic, and it's trendy to have really, really long stories with really long chapters that number in the dozens. Sadly, my HP pairing, HarryLuna, only has a few long-fics that have been written yet. But I expect more before the next book; heck knows there will be plenty of time for it.

One of my favorite HP fics was a really long unfinished WIP with 10 chapters called A Surfeit of Curses, on www.schnoogle.com. I hate it when you find a fanfic you love, and it's wonderfully long, and you get all the way to the end and realize it hasn't been updated in a year and probably never will again. ::sigh:: There's pain, pain there.

Have you ever read the Spike/Buffy fic by Holly4? She's fantastic, and her fics are longer than a coastline. But exciting, too, so much that you feel emotionally exhausted after reading them. here fics are here:

http://www.fanfiction.net/profile.php?userid=268340

I started with Sang et Ivoire, but Cupidity is good too. They all are.

I'm a fic reccing mood. I'm going to throw long fic at you. I know you know Cowboy Bebop... do you like Gundam Wing? Because if you do, blkros wrote the best GW het fic ever, here. And if you've ever seen the anime Blue Seed, you can't miss Dreamer Awakened by Ruri Hoshino.

[mythdefied.livejournal.com]

(Got here through your post on AJCS.)

I think you have an interesting stance on badfic. Many of us loathe it, many of us can't tell the difference between it and good fic and many more still don't care. But you're take is more that you know the difference, you even care, but you don't loathe it because it's a starting place. It's the author's baby steps into the world of fanfic and like children, they have to learn to walk. Sure, they're going to fall on the way, but with help (beta readers, LOCs etc.), they'll soon be walking on their own (writing good fic).

I applaud your take on this. I tend more towards the bitter, cynical side of loathing it, but that's more of a personal hangup with long-winded reasons I won't get into here. You have a fresh take on this subject and it makes me smile.

Badfic can indeed pave the way to good fic as many of us can attest to. (And so many of us have written some truly horrendous crap. I shudder at the memories.) And I do love it when I get to beta for someone who has all the makings of a wonderful writer; they just need a little help along the path. (Not saying I'm an expert by any means, but others in the past helped me along and I like to do the same.)

I guess the problems for me start when no one encourages a writer to improve. When there are obvious, serious problems with an author's grammar, spelling and other technical issues, and that author just gets tons of mindless feedback without a helpful suggestion in sight. That does nothing to help the author, only tells them that they're doing no wrong, and soon they start to believe it, especially when their friends rally around them and tell them they can do no wrong. That's when it just gets extremely frustrating for me, and sad too. I've seen a couple wonderful writers go downhill because no one ever helped them out and by now they don't want to hear that they're doing something wrong.

That's usually the point when I start into my bitter rants on badfic, and I'll spare you. ;)

Great post! Thoughtful and a pleasantly different take on the issue.

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[mythdefied.livejournal.com]

Heh. Quite obviously that should've been "But your take is more...."

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[permetaform]

that author just gets tons of mindless feedback

heh, that was actually one of the "Eureka!" points for me personally; I've realized exactly how much mindless feedback I was getting and I looked at the fic that was getting more substantial feedback and did a "oh. well crap."

I think if the author really *is* in it for the writing, and partially too, for the feedback, then eventually there's gonna be a lightbulb. This goes especially for when you see rec pages and journals and you go "do'oh!" (which is why I heartily approve of them, not only do they point of great fic to read, but they're an example of good elitism without the gritty cliquishness of it all).

with the writers that go downhill? meh, I've seen that too. but you'd think they're realizing the type of feedback they're getting...::shrugs:: It's a communal process methinks. There are ways around pointing out that a fic could be better, and I this point I don't even fully trust my beta's opinion on a fic because most of my fics are contingent on a certain aspect showing through, but if it *isn't* showing through at all how can my beta's know it? But that's creative angst on a whole 'nother topic...

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[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

Never seen it, actually. I wasn't thinking of anything specific. But thanks for the link -- I'm highly amused.

;o)

[fannyfae]

I confess. I am a bad!fic lover and I have shamelesslywritten MarySue fic laced with much smuttiness and sexual content.

And I am completely unrepentant about this! ;)

[permetaform]

::giggles and hugs::

another one comes into the light! =)

[erimies.livejournal.com]

I also confess my fondness for bad!fic. For some reason they appeal to me; just like very bad movies do. I really appreciate your take on them, because completely curbstomping eliticism is way worse than any bad!fic to me. :)

I don't really write myself though, because I have a rather strange and immensely powerful sense of humour. Every single fic would probably end up extremely cracky and too strange.

I suppose I should try though... But I'm also lazy and slow, and I never get anything done properly if I feel I'm being forced - even if I'm the one doing the forcing! XD

I do draw, and they are all pretty strange too... I'm not too good at it, but I'm not horrible either. It's just my ideas that are weird, and I never get around drawing anything if it isn't cracky. I have the feeling that would also happen if I tried to write anything. After all, I drew the icon I'm using. XD

And now I feel stalkerish for writing a comment on a six years old entry. With my luck you have changed your opinion and I'll be left feeling stupid. XD I just felt like writing something since I added you.

oh well, c'est la vie!

[permetaform]

lol I love extremely cracky fic. They are my life's blood. ^_^

And nah, This is one of those entries that I get random pings on 'cause I linked to it in my journal style. Still haven't changed my opinion. XD

How did you happen on me, if I may ask? =)

[erimies.livejournal.com]

I'm not completely certain how I found you, actually... I usually find people, save the link and lurk a long time before I manage to make any contact, if at all. I think it has mostly to do with my laziness, really. And I only get around contacting anyone at all when I feel we share some opinions. :) Besides, when I get around to do something, I tend to exaggerate. Notice how this comment keeps getting longer, and longer, and longer... XD

Most likely it was the kakanaru community, though... I like the pairing and feel it's tragically unappreciated. Le sigh. It doesn't really help I'm such a pervert either, so I have a motive to be thorough with my search. XD

A side note: I actually managed to draw something with this pairing. Yay?

...Too bad it's a Twilight crossover parody-thing. *headdesk* I have only seen those movies thanks to my bad movie-hobby. Then either my friend or I suggested I might dream of this crossover and things left from there. XD

Aaanyway, it's really hard to find a good!fic of those two and while I adore bad!fic, I don't have any energy to contact the people who write them. I like your fics and I think I'll comment some... sometime. Yeah. Sometimes I wonder why I'm so good at school, I barely make any effort and I'm not like Shikamaru. XD

[permetaform]

ahhh, yes the comm. <333 I'm so glad I found that place, XD found many more ppl willing to chat about the pairing.

::fistbump of perv unity::

YAY ART OMG POST IT POST IT POST! ::hops up and down::

Heee, I'm glad you like my fics. =D ty for letting me know!

[erimies.livejournal.com]

And one of these days might actually participate in something. XD It's very crucial that us perverts stay united, after all! <3 We need to show that pervyness isn't exclusive to males. XD

Ah, I have actually posted it in my deviantart and my own journal... And I have considered posting it in some community, but I don't really know which one would be appropriate. It's a very strange fancomic, after all. XD

But if you are sure you want to see it, here be the link to my post:
http://erimies.livejournal.com/4967.html

One of these days I'll comment one! I can do it! XD

[permetaform]

::GIGGLEFIT AT COMIC OMG:: XD

JUST POST IT TO THE KAKANARU LJ!!! is not hard! =D BE SHAMELESS! ::POINTY FINGER!::

[erimies.livejournal.com]

That is probably the best reaction to that comic for me. XD I'm glad you like it~ And now you have the idea what kind of things I draw. Of course, that one is pretty innocent, at least compared to the one where Jiraiya made Naruto dress up like an oiran. ^_____^'

HAHA, okay, I'll do it later. But I'm blaming you for provoking me. XD

[permetaform]

::SPARKLY THUMBS UP::

[erimies.livejournal.com]

Great, now an image of Gai and Lee doing sparkly thumbs up won't leave my mind. XD