so, MASSIVE racefail in Supernatural J2 fandom.

[permetaform]

(signal boost)

What has happened is essentially a Big Bang author thought it would be "a perfect idea" (quote) to set 80k words of slashfic in post-earthquake Haiti. The resulting story is a ridiculous epic of white privilege and the kind of racism that, while not literally going out and lynching minorities, is basically the emotional equivalent thereof.

This post catalogues what has happened and the ensuing discussions.

Thoughts on this:

- "...she wrote 80000 words of escapist porn using real people's personal and collective tragedy as stock footage, and characterised the entire population of Haiti as adoring subhumans by drawing on the collective store of racist tropes in the American unconscious instead of actually learning anything about Haiti, Haitians or earthquakes." (written by tiferet)

- (on whitewashing) People in Harry Potter fandom have British beta's to Britpick their fic. WHY IS THIS NOT DONE FOR RACE? ::wry:: is it because the British are white?

- people are defending the author? Gah. Again?

- "...a soldier shoots at a target, but hits an innocent person. Removing the bullet doesn't automatically fix the problem -- the wound is still there and the scar from said wound probably always will be.

Now, just to expand on that example a bit; imagine how pissed off the person would be if the soldier said he/she didn't intend to hit them and waited quite some time before removing the bullet. Imagine how pissed off the innocent person in question would be if, after all that, people kept asking why he/she got so angry in the first place. Or if the person was told to just get over it. Suddenly, the intent of the soldier doesn't seem so all-fired important, does it?

Perhaps more select fandom denizens (writers in particular) would think to check their proverbial aim if they had that example in mind." (written by emerald-skies)


There are tons of meta on this subject. There are tons of posts. I have no new thoughts or opinions really.

But I'm linking to this on the off-chance that anyone who's reading this HASN'T seen it yet.

If you haven't posted about this in your journal, please please please at least post a link. Spread the word.

edit: http://www.derailingfordummies.com/ heh.

edit2: rewritten a bit to remove unkind and incendiary language. Comment thread regarding the same will remain.

Comments

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

people are defending the author? Gah. Makes me think of the people who defend rapists and blame the victim. Same story, different characters.
How is defending a racist the comparable to defending a person that raped someone else?

To clarify, I do not defend the author of the racist story. I don't see how it is the "same story, different characters." I think I understand where you are coming from with your comment (worn out anger at seeing the same unresolved issues), while I think the wording is sparking an issue.

[permetaform]

My parallel is specifically that the people who are harmed are being told, "you are blowing things out of proportion" and "that poor girl is being bullied!" Literal quotes that I have read in the threads of the posts that I linked to.

Rape seems to be closer to the heart of the fandom's causes. It is a trauma to both the body and the mind/emotions; and while the body can heal, the greater and most lasting part of the damage is most often to the mind/emotions. Racism is a continued (and *continuous*) trauma to the mind/emotions of people of color.

[bloody-american.livejournal.com]

I remember when I first saw the fic in the bigbang comm and thinking that this would not end well. The idea that someone would write that made me wince. I just. Cannot fathom it.

And I feel the same way about this as I do when I see people writing Nazi fetish fic: sick and disgusted. (But then I wonder why no one ever gets up in arms when people write Nazi fetish fic when in my mind it is just as horrible.)

[permetaform]

those EXIST? D=

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I was not trying to derail the conversation. I was personally upset by the comment and thought it was insensitive.

[hippediva.livejournal.com]

How about just don't read it? After all, there HAS to be other fanfic out there...

[permetaform]

? when did I say you were trying to derail the conversation? o.0 ::deeply confused:: um, don't take this the wrong way but that link had nothing to do with you, I was updating all my entries throughout yesterday.

...I find racism insensitive.

[permetaform]

It's not about reading it, it's the fact that someone wrote 80k words of slashfic taking advantage of human tragedy thinking it was 'the best idea ever', her words, and not bothering to look up Haitian culture (didn't even register that they spoke French), and using only the most wtf stereotypes to write the characters.

And that none of her team of betas spoke up. Neither one of the mods. An artist had chosen to work with her, and used disaster footage.

It's the fact that all of these people thought it was a Good Idea and let her post it, with encouragement.

And it's about the discussion that came out of this, which is why I'm linking to the wank and hoping that other people link too.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I said that because I didn't want it to seem like I was ignoring or trying to cloud the original issue.

I find it offensive that you're being sensitive to one issue, while completely ignoring another. I think it's disgusting to compare anything other than rape to rape, especially when saying that defending someone who wrote a racist story is comparable to defending a person who raped someone else.

Yes, racism is insensitive. Ignoring rape issues is insensitive too.

[hippediva.livejournal.com]

Tolstoy took advantage of human tragedy. So has every other writer who has lifted a pen. And so what if she wrote lousy, unresearched crap? This is FANFIC where even the very best story in any given fandom gets posted alongside Mary-Sues and the dithering, misspelled drivel of 13-yr olds. In a cyberworld that spans the gamut from self-concious Art to "The Secret Diaries of..." there is nothing surprising about bad writing. I fail to understand why it should engender any debate at all.

[permetaform]

ah okay.

The language being used is very very similar. Yes, one tragedy is not one hundred percent similar to another tragedy; yet people are reacting to the author the way that I've seen guys/forumers defend rapists and rape language. Similar logic and words I've seen being used; "stop bullying them", "they didn't intend it", "took it all out of proportion", "you brought it on yourself", and in terms of rape language, "freedom of expression".

Rape seems to be a topic that fandom has concurred on; and it's a very personal topic. Yet racism comes up again and again and I think that is because it's not nearly so personal to a great deal of fans.

Why is the violence done on the female body and mind so different than the violence done onto the person of color's body and mind? Does rape only count if it's penetrative? Does racism only count if someone dies?

[permetaform]

But it's human tragedy that is still occurring. They're still pulling people out, people are still dying, the children are still literally eating cakes made of mud because there is nothing else to eat. Is it okay for, just after your family's died, for someone to write a fic on it, and get everyone *completely* wrong? That the people you care about are uneducated and lacking in common sense, and every other sort of offensive thing they could say about you?

Even if it's fanfic, it does not make it right. Don't people and fandom speak out against rape fic and racist language?

To quote a quote from my other post: "We in fandom are a community of storytellers. We love the stories in literature, in film, in our history from all over the world. Words, images, videos and music are our currency, and we value them highly. We prize the connections we make through the intagible, the familiar rhythms of the stories we read and the stories we write vibrating through our chest like a heartbeat."

Some of the reactions to the fic were of people *crying*, from being hurt by the ideals propagated by the fic, and they didn't even get that far in. There's bad writing and there's *hurtful* writing.

If this is not talked about, if this is not debated, how are we as a whole supposed to improve? How is it supposed to get any better? People have left certain fandoms because of the racefail, I know I have retreated from certain fandoms due to the racefail, are they supposed to keep leaving? Why do these fans not deserve a safe place to be where one does not have to be in danger of being attacked?

A woman *should* be safe while walking down a dark street. It doesn't mean that she *is*, and granted she should keep a wary eye out, however shouldn't a city strive to keep their streets safe?

[hippediva.livejournal.com]

I don't get high-minded about fanfiction. *G* It's what I read and write for sheer fun. An I refuse to be pulled into another fandom mess over what 'should' or 'shouldn't' be written. That is an extremely messy subject on every level possible and best left to those who don't mind doing battle.

I prefer battling weeds myself. To each their own fight, as it were. *G*

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

I think I understand the comment as you meant it. My point was that the comment was insensitive. Yes, the language is the same, but defending someone who wrote a racist fic is not the "same story, different characters" as defending a person who raped someone else.

Why is the violence done on the female body and mind so different than the violence done onto the person of color's body and mind? Does rape only count if it's penetrative? Does racism only count if someone dies?
There are many forms of racism and I am not implying in any way that it only counts if someone dies. Race motivated violence is one type of racism.

Racism is a belief that leads action, like discrimination, prejudice, violence, and oppression. Rape is an act, an assault on a person, usually a sexual act without consent. Sexism is a belief and I would understand relating it racism as they are both form of prejudice that lead to discrimination, prejudice, violence, and oppression.

Yes, rape is a more personal topic for me. I have never had racism directed at me, while I have been subjected to rape. I am not implying that rape is "worse" than racism or more "worthy" of attention. I'm saying that they are not comparable and I pointed out an insensitive comment you made that personal upset me. Instead of your understanding I was given comments like "ah okay." The emotional effect your insensitive comment had on me is not changed by your explanation or comments.

[permetaform]

I apologize for the offense I have caused you.

The "ah okay" was specifically in reference to, "I said that because I didn't want it to seem like I was ignoring or trying to cloud the original issue.", which was a line reply to a previous line I made. The "ah okay" was not in reference to the rest of your comment.

Racism as it is enacted on a person very much feels like an assault. The powerlessness, doubt, fear, and deep hurt is actually paralleled very clearly in psychological terms, and I'm not sure that a parallel to sexism can be drawn so clearly, though it is there as well.

Was is specifically the "ah okay" that upset you, or the other comments in general? To be honest I was speaking from a place of frustration that you did not seem to be understanding my point of view, so I apologize for the harm that I caused from that.

But the matter is that racism feels like a continuous punch to the face, an *assault* on the body that I inhabit. So yes they feel comparable to me, in the way that they are enacted, in the mental and emotional repercussions, in the way that people apologize for it, and I stated so.

I am sorry for triggering you.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

It's sad that it took my saying that I was raped to get an apology. I shouldn't have to comment with that information to be given an apology for the offense that I felt. The apology is for the offense I felt, not even the for making the comment. I pointed out that the comment caused personal offense and you didn't think you should apologize because you meant it a different way. What you said offended me, it doesn't matter what you meant. It's the words that caused offense.

Defending someone who raped and defending someone who wrote a racist story can't be compared. Racism and rape are cannot be assigned qualitative and quanitive values that will make them similar enough to be directly compared. Furthermore, even if racism "feels like a continuous punch to the face," it's not an actual physical event. It's a psychological one until it is, sadly, is an physical act. In the case you referred to, the story, it wasn't a physical act against someone. Rape is not worse than racism and racism is not worse than rape because they cannot be accurately compared.

My whole point is that the situations are not comparable. I think I understood what your comment meant, I didn't agree.

I brought up sexism because it relates to racism in that they are both beliefs that lead to physical acts and are "isms." I wouldn't have been offended if the comparison had been made to sexism and not rape.

I appreciate the apology.

Merely because I dislike the word: I was upset, not triggered. That word makes me feel like a gun people are scared will go off.

And please know that I am not upset with you as a person, but with the comment.

[bloody-american.livejournal.com]

Yep. I've always kept away from it when I've seen it in the past so I can't exactly point out specific instances to you but yes. I've seen it. I think the most recent I've seen was a request in a kink meme a couple of months ago, though I don't remember which fandom it was for...

[permetaform]

It's sad that it took my saying that I was raped to get an apology. I shouldn't have to comment with that information to be given an apology for the offense that I felt. The apology is for the offense I felt, not even the for making the comment. I pointed out that the comment caused personal offense and you didn't think you should apologize because you meant it a different way. What you said offended me, it doesn't matter what you meant. It's the words that caused offense.

I'd assumed, from your tone in prior comments that you were being triggered. I realized it by your second comment; I perhaps shouldn't have to share the fact that I've been molested either. But there you go. Our experiences are possibly/probably wildly different. I do feel that there is a parallel, and still feel there is a parallel, but as I in hindsight feel that it's unkind, will edit the post to remove the incindindary language. I apologize that I reacted badly.

Merely because I dislike the word: I was upset, not triggered. That word makes me feel like a gun people are scared will go off.

I apologize for that term, it's a term I use around friends.


it's not an actual physical event.

The true damage of rape I find and am finding is in the mind and in the heart. The body heals much quicker, the mind keeps echos for ages. If you are referring to the fact that rape is an "action", words are "actions" too, it is a thing that is decided upon, at some level, to enact. It's only as thoughtless as a thoughtless action, "oh my hand slipped." It still caused damage, it is 80k words of damage. Of "oh my hand slipped."

[permetaform]

I....WHAT?

::brainhurty::

um, but thank you for pointing this out to me.

[kiki-miserychic.livejournal.com]

Tiggered is the generally accepted term. I'm the only person I know of that dislikes it, so thank you for the apology. It's one of those small things that gets to me.

[permetaform]

gah, I facepalm. I realize on reading your comment and what it'd replied to that I'd used the word in reply to an earlier section of your comment. my bad.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

I've heard people flip out about Nazi fetish fic, if it's any consolation?

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

Because it's racist as fuck, and many of us as a society decided that we should try to discourage racism rather than encourage it?

[bloody-american.livejournal.com]

Yeah? It actually is, truth be told.

[lady-ganesh.livejournal.com]

People flipping out about Nazi fetishes was also definitely part of the Bombshell McGee flap after the Oscars.

[octocoffee.livejournal.com]

Wow. Holy fucking wow. I'm so pissed right now, idek.

Anyone who says we're fucking ~postracial~ after seeing this is going to get their ass kicked. I can't believe this, and at the same time, I can.

Well, I guess my stalking your LJ today paid off. Now I don't feel so creepy, 'cause I just learned something important.

(Sorry about stalking, btw. I was just curious as to what you'd have on your LJ.)