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Does anyone know of where I might find any combination of Spike/Jet/Faye or Spike/Jet? Cowboy Bebop yaoi is freaking rare, and I'm wondering why that is, because the pairings just seems incredibly obvious because actions and dialogue are freaking *random* otherwise.
Is it *because* it's obvious or is it because Jet is not conventionally attractive?
It's a bit odd to me and a bit distressing that it seems that so much is hinged on the attractiveness factor. I'm pretty sure that's part of the reason why Legolas/Gimli is freaking rare compared to the other combinations (and I saw this pairing in the movie despite not having read the books, though I didn't see the Legolas/Aragorn until someone pointed it out). I'm also pretty sure that's why Londo/G'Kar is nearly non-existent which is an awful and tragic thing.
However, knowing that at least part of the whole deal with slash is the 'yay!pr0n!' aspect of it, it's understandable.
Interestingly enough, there's plenty of Snapeslash, despite how he's described as rather ...less than charming... in the books. It's facinating to note the evolution of Snape's appearence, the permutations of his descriptive words, and the near sexualization of ugliness.
Of course one can't discount that appearances are all the in eye of the beholder and it's all relative and such.
But: Snape is not attractive, conventionally; he has sallow skin, a hook nose, and greasy hair and none of these are descriptors used in conveying beauty.
Nevertheless, force of will (both the reader's and Snape's) has rendered him compelling. Ugliness is tranmuted and reformed into something to be admired. Or perhaps even that admiration exists for a qualities which seem to be 'overlooked' conventionally.
Or, and here's a flip-side that'll probably give the rest of you heart attacks to hear me say, but I didn't find Sands 'attractive' for most of the film. The 'pork' scene highlighted the flat qualities of his face and his character was pretty much an ass.
And oh, what an ass he is, compellingly ugly souled, horrendously garbed, petty and over cocky as he counts on ability that he didn't seem to have.
And yet.
And yet, he survived. He still stood, and he showed some scrap of a possibility of redemption with the boy... and my eyes are drawn to him helplessly, ugliness and all.
Yet another example?
Johnny Depp has a slightly asymmetrical face; his nose tilts towards the left. Yet I find myself thinking of it as a 'quirk' and 'eccentricity', despite the fact that for all intents and purposes it's a flaw. But it's a compelling flaw, a lovable flaw perhaps *because* it's a flaw (and how's *that* for a sexualization of ugliness?) but also because it's *him*. And my adoration of Johnny Depp renders this flaw forgivable and loveable, as it is part and parcel with his face as a whole.
(And isn't this simply love? Where flaws are smoothed away, overshadowed, ignored, sexualized, or adored?)
Perhaps this is why Snapefic is so common despite the book's descriptives, we as readers have collectly fallen in love with him and there never was a *visual* aspect to deter us from the beginning. Where in movies and anime there is the appearance first and the situation second and the personality last, in books (good ones) appearance and situation and personality are inseperable and it is *that* much easier for personality and situation to negate the effects of an ugly appearance...
::tilts head and ponders some more:: dunno...your opinions?
Is it *because* it's obvious or is it because Jet is not conventionally attractive?
It's a bit odd to me and a bit distressing that it seems that so much is hinged on the attractiveness factor. I'm pretty sure that's part of the reason why Legolas/Gimli is freaking rare compared to the other combinations (and I saw this pairing in the movie despite not having read the books, though I didn't see the Legolas/Aragorn until someone pointed it out). I'm also pretty sure that's why Londo/G'Kar is nearly non-existent which is an awful and tragic thing.
However, knowing that at least part of the whole deal with slash is the 'yay!pr0n!' aspect of it, it's understandable.
Interestingly enough, there's plenty of Snapeslash, despite how he's described as rather ...less than charming... in the books. It's facinating to note the evolution of Snape's appearence, the permutations of his descriptive words, and the near sexualization of ugliness.
Of course one can't discount that appearances are all the in eye of the beholder and it's all relative and such.
But: Snape is not attractive, conventionally; he has sallow skin, a hook nose, and greasy hair and none of these are descriptors used in conveying beauty.
Nevertheless, force of will (both the reader's and Snape's) has rendered him compelling. Ugliness is tranmuted and reformed into something to be admired. Or perhaps even that admiration exists for a qualities which seem to be 'overlooked' conventionally.
Or, and here's a flip-side that'll probably give the rest of you heart attacks to hear me say, but I didn't find Sands 'attractive' for most of the film. The 'pork' scene highlighted the flat qualities of his face and his character was pretty much an ass.
And oh, what an ass he is, compellingly ugly souled, horrendously garbed, petty and over cocky as he counts on ability that he didn't seem to have.
And yet.
And yet, he survived. He still stood, and he showed some scrap of a possibility of redemption with the boy... and my eyes are drawn to him helplessly, ugliness and all.
Yet another example?
Johnny Depp has a slightly asymmetrical face; his nose tilts towards the left. Yet I find myself thinking of it as a 'quirk' and 'eccentricity', despite the fact that for all intents and purposes it's a flaw. But it's a compelling flaw, a lovable flaw perhaps *because* it's a flaw (and how's *that* for a sexualization of ugliness?) but also because it's *him*. And my adoration of Johnny Depp renders this flaw forgivable and loveable, as it is part and parcel with his face as a whole.
(And isn't this simply love? Where flaws are smoothed away, overshadowed, ignored, sexualized, or adored?)
Perhaps this is why Snapefic is so common despite the book's descriptives, we as readers have collectly fallen in love with him and there never was a *visual* aspect to deter us from the beginning. Where in movies and anime there is the appearance first and the situation second and the personality last, in books (good ones) appearance and situation and personality are inseperable and it is *that* much easier for personality and situation to negate the effects of an ugly appearance...
::tilts head and ponders some more:: dunno...your opinions?
glad you linked this! part 1
Is it *because* it's obvious or is it because Jet is not conventionally attractive?
I always thought Jet was attractive in that "If I were an older woman" sort of way. In canon, he's only 9 years older than Spike, but yet Jet has somehow moved into that category of "older guys that this 19-year-old is too young to have a crush on." Mind you, there are actors in Hollywood who are older than 36 ::coughDavidDuchovny::cough::whoisn'tconventionallyattractiveeither::cough:: that I crushed on at an even younger age. But Jet just moved into "old" for me. I think it's the scar, the wolverine beard, and the metal arm. Though he's often really not angry or mean (actually he's the nicest person on Bebop), Jet looks fierce. And I guess I still look at that as "I'd have to all adult to be involved with him, because he's all scary despite being nice bodied."
I know what you mean about Sands... I didn't think he was attractive for the first half of the movie. Particularly not when he was watching the bullfight. His wardrobe was terrible (funny though.) And he does have, for the most part, a revolting soul. You'd the CIA would have psych tests for prospective agents.
But somewhere between "Are you trying to give me a boner?" And the scene where he stands, alone, shooting by sound at the fool that dares to laugh at him as if he couldn't hurt them anymore, as if he were somehow less than The Impenetrable Agent Sands because he's suffered a loss that would destroy most people. And of course, The Boy. I loved him and The Boy. The Boy and Sands should make buddy movies. Ok... not really. Better, they should make cameos together in every movie ever made from now on that's not set in Middle Earth.
On another note, I love G'Kar. I think he was patterned after President Jefferson, or something. Someone with an amazing political brain and iron will. But no, I don't find him attractive at all. Then again, he's supposed to be an alien, and not attractive to humans. Although, I find Londo even less attractive, and he's more "human" looking.
Where in movies and anime there is the appearance first and the situation second and the personality last, in books (good ones) appearance and situation and personality are inseperable and it is *that* much easier for personality and situation to negate the effects of an ugly appearance...
Very interesting theory! It makes a lot of sense, and could explain the Snape thing, which remains a mystery to me.
Re: glad you linked this! part 2
From another comment:
what I find absolutely fabulous about Cowboy Bebop is that it's *such* a well-developed world. personally I find myself not wanting to detract from that by writing fiction for it, is it the same way for you?
I have that reaction to Farscape. I'm so in love with it as it is, that I'm terrified that fanfic could only ruin it for me. I've read a few, but less than a dozen overall. For CB... I've read a lot, and like about 1/7th of what I read, sometimes less. But there's some truly great fanfic out there, if you look hard. And it is a largely fanboy dominated fandom, as many have said. The best fics I've read have been separated mostly (but not always) into two categories: Action & Relationship &/or Friendship Fics, written by females; Action &/or Friendship fics, written by males. There was one glaring exception, with one of my alltime favorite Spike/Faye relationship (not action at all) fics being written by someone I'm 97% sure is a guy. But for the most part the guys seem to either tackle only Spike's tragic love for Julia and only talk about his side of it without actually writing Julia, or not talk about romantic relationships at all. Of the m/m slash fics I have read, it's typically been Spike/Vicious. Which makes more sense to me, actually, than Spike/Jet, with the history we're given.
Re: glad you linked this! part 3
And now... to the big one: Legolas/Gimli.
When I read the book I was in middle school and early high school and had barely tapped into the idea of Slashfic. I knew it was out there, but never read it. As such, it never occurred to me to slash Legolas and Gimli. I thought that, like the rest of the characters, they had a beautiful friendship that transcended prejudice and was absolutely asexual. I didn't get a sexual feeling out of anything in LOTR. I didn't even think of Legolas as sexual until I watched the movies. He's not really sexual in the movies, either, but he's Orlando Bloom In A Blond Wig With Suggestive Backlighting and that's enough.
Anyway, I guess my overall point is that Legolas/Gimli has been cemented in my head as purely platonic for so long, that it'd take Tolkein himself saying "Gimli and Legolas are adopting a child and changing their names and picking out treehouses together" before I ever gave the thought of slashiness a real foothold in my brain.
I'll say this... Gimli in the film was unnatractive to me, whereas book!Gimli to me was neither attractive or not. Movie Gimli looked older and grislier than I imagined, rather like someone's grandfather. If we're talking about slashing the films, then it's even more difficult, because the film gives equal time to the Legolas/Aragorn friendship as to the Gimli/Legolas frienship. That was something that surprised me a bit, since in the book in my memory Legolas didn't really seem to be super-best friends with/bodyguard to Aragorn like he was in the films. He really did come off as bodyguardish to me.
Could I ever slash them together?
1) Emotionally, I think Legolas and Gimli are close enough. But that doesn't take into account the deep racial divides of Middle Earth. When I think of it, I get the feeling that Legolas could be friends with a hundred dwarves, and the idea of having the equivalent fo a marriage relationship with one of them would never cross his mind. What's strange about that theory is the Gimli *did* fall in love with Galadriel... maybe I only imagine it as elves being preferential? I dunno.
2) As entertainment value of reading two characters in love get it on: nope. I couldn't read Elf/dwarf sex, or read Human/Hobbit sex, and find it sexy. The physical size difference puts me off visually, and that would be the case even without the films. Some people like that; I just don't. In parody format, of course, it's very amusing. But in a serious story I wouldn't find it sexy at all. Just like 6'5" guys with 4'9" women kind of makes me feel a little squicky. Does she have Daddy issues? Does he have secret pedophile issues? Is it uncomfortable to kiss when in certain positions? My personal preference, if I want to read it to be titillated, is that the people doing it are about the same size, and that transfers, I guess, to the fanfic I read. Since most of the time in fic all characters are humans, it doesn't really come up much. But I've avoided it in LotR fic for that reason.
part 2 -oops
http://www.livejournal.com/users/rashaka/277681.html
Re: part 2 -oops
umm. yeah. going to download fic now....
Re: part 2 -oops
Give yourself time to read number 1 and it's sequel (more like direct continuation cause the story stops in the middle of the plot.) That's my reigning favorite of all CB fic so far.
I'm glad I "met" you with the Heathen Gods drabble thing. I love meeting anime fans! Especially when they write well and like so many fandoms that I like. :)
Re: part 2 -oops
::grins:: ditto and repeat.
Re: part 2 -oops
This is really interesting, but I don't know any of these anime terms. My personal Bebop ship is Spike/Faye. I just don't see him and Jett together. Also, Jett seems way too into women to be slashed.
Re: part 2 -oops