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lierdumoa and I knew that we shared scary scary vidding brain wherein we knew roughly 80% of what the other was thinking in regard to vid-like things and to test this out we vidded for a weekend with the same fandom and the same song.It is of great amusement to both of us that we came up with entirely different vids; granted, part of the reason is because I was experimenting with a totally different style.
How Soon | 640x480 (.wmv, 30 Mb)
Source: 'Gattaca', owned by Columbia
Song: 'How Soon Is Now' by Love Spit Love
Summary: unabashed WIP
Extras: Vidder process notes.
I don't think I ever would have the urge to rework this into something tighter, so I present the following to ya'll as a WIP (or is that a VIP? Vid In Progress?). It's a lot more loosely beatwhorish than my other vids, although it still makes me vaguely happy, probably because I can see in my head what the effects are supposed to look like. And the effects-only-I-can-see give me enough glee that I'm less compelled to actually render them in the vid, especially with new and shinier things on my to-vid plate.
Long story short, I'm still curious as to what ya'll think of this vid style, 'cause it's so different from my regular one. To be honest, I thought I'd get bored of watching it, but I don't, and I'm not sure why.
I'm also wondering if there's...how should I say it...disenfranchised viewers out there? ie. vid viewers who are disappointed by today's fanshionable vids because it doesn't connect to them somehow?
If so, what is missing in our current attempts to connect to the audience? Is it the fact that the song is not connecting? Are the clips moving at too fast a rate? Is it the fact that the vid is too ivory-tower avant-garde-ish? Are the songs too long?
The reason why I ask this is that my personal view on art is that its purpose is to connect with people. That's why it is perfectly reasonable for me to view entertainment as art, and it's facinating to me what captures people's attention and what doesn't.
How do I communicate with you?
Or rather,
How do I, as a vidder, communicate with you, as a viewer?
And specifically communicating to a viewer that is not part of the echo-chamber that is all too easy to fall into in all walks of life; how do I communicate with the Other, that does not already see eye-to-eye with me?
Is this communication even *possible*?
I'd like to believe that it is.
For instance,
poison_pagan has a totally different vid aesthetic than me, and to be totally honest I read poison_pagan's reviews for the ones that she rates 6 or below, 'cause those vids I tend to like the best. It's simply a different aesthetic.Question is: is it possible to vid to both aesthetics simultaneously?
Also: *should* it be a goal to vid to both aesthetics simultaneously?
[edit] addendum via thought from
laurashapiro: this is a false binary, but here for now for the sake of argument. There's multiple audiences, but can they be communicated with more than one at a time? [/edit]To borrow
morgandawn and laurashapiro's metaphor (god, I love how those ladies makes me think ::blows kisses::), one cannot and should not expect a person who likes PWPs to absolutely adore long angsty epics; they *might* also like it, but it's not a certainty.And to be honest, fic-wise, I really usually love only the short stories. It's the rare long-fic that I am able to like/invest in. Why should it be different for vids and vid watching?
...
wow, that was rambly. Feel free to respond to any or all parts of the above. ::hugs flist:: Connecting with one's audience is such a fickle matter;
wickedwords tried to start a conversation about this last VVC (::gives major props::), but it got choked by the challenge vid-show. She is absolutely right, however, that this conversation should probably take place and I adore her brain for realizing this and bringing this realization to people's attention.For reference,
laurashapiro's great Connecting With Audiences panel notes.[edit] and her thoughts on vidding Farscape (aka. vidding for multiple levels of viewers)
[edit2] I don't want to be totally catering to the audience, but the fact is that you can't connect your piece with your audience unless you understand your audience enough to understand what they *don't* know, and be able to fill in those gaps. The step that takes them a bit beyond what they already know is, then, the second half of art; it's connecting them back to *you*. Full circle.
[edit3] OHHHH,
cathexys' comment, from lierdumoa's made me realise that some of the flashier effects in vids actually *looked* more complicated than they actually are and thus get applauded more. ::headdesks:: This is what you get for being in an echo-chamber, I was totally confused as to why people were so ga-ga over the effects in the Oz version of "Chemicals Between Us".[edit4]
sockkpuppett's brought up a really good point: how do we define an audience? Personally, after these discussions, I'm thinking that an audience is a group of people with a similar knowledge and/or aesthetic base. The reason why this is important is because a vid that you plan to show a particular audience has to both fill in their gaps of knowledge AND recognize what is already common knowledge and shorthand that.
One of the most brilliant shorthanding's I've seen is shalott and melina's The Mountain vid, wherein they used one perfectly placed shot (of Boromir rubbing his sword handle while Aragorn watches, or was that the otherway around...) to summarize the Aragorn/Boromir relationship, which OMG, was more effective than a complete vid.
[edit5] by
elynross:To me, taking the audience into consideration is something that comes in, in part, during the beta process, and involves making sure that to the best of your ability, you've communicated what you want to communicate[...]
What matters to me is the care and concern of the vidder involved, the intentionality, the skill and/or the signs of talent that can be hidden in the vid of a less-skilled vidder.
[edit6] by
musexmoirai: "I think the different expectations often arise from the fact that songs in comedic vids tend to be specific and removed from the fandom shown, so there's a sense of 'wow, that's clever,' when someone is able to find a particularly good match of song/image. Whereas more emotional, serious songs with slower beats tend to have more universal lyrics because of the emotions expressed. So I end up looking for interpretation and it gets a little boring when every kiss is a kiss."[edit7] from this thread by
lierdumoa: "I think the vast majority of live action effects are designed to be subtle. You're not supposed to see them -- you're supposed to feel them. [...] I think anything that's put in to tie the vid together rather than break it apart is going to be harder to notice for someone who's not looking for it."[edit8] discussion on clean aethetics
[edit9] by
hannahrorlove: "I think knowing the fandom is important to 'getting' a vid, but not completely necessary. If the vid-maker has a goal in mind and is able to communicate that - "this is a tragic love story," "this is just too silly to be believed" - then they succeeded in their goal. [...]You cannot communicate with everyone who might see or interact with the vid, but you can try to reach out to most. This is probably done by just making the vid clear in terms of what its message is."
NOTE: these highlights are not comprehensive, nor complete
Your thoughts?
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Fascinating discussion. I'm not a vidder (one of those literary fannish types discussed above) and my only visual arts experience is two years of high school drama. But I'll take my best stab at this anyways.
As mentioned above, there are different kind of vid audiences, but, beyond that, there are different types of vids (narrative, emotional, impressionistic, comedic, etc.) I don't know about other vidders, but I change my expectations slightly for each type. For example, I would appreciate a very close match of words and images in a comedic vid, much closer than those in a narrative vid, like when the characters' mouths are timed to make them look like they're singing/saying the lyrics. I wouldn't expect that of a dramatic character-driven vid. And in those dramatic vids, I'd be more willing to accept images working as metaphors and not an exact match for the words (e.g. the lyrics say 'kiss' and a character touches another on the cheek).
I think the different expectations often arise from the fact that songs in comedic vids tend to be specific and removed from the fandom shown, so there's a sense of 'wow, that's clever,' when someone is able to find a particularly good match of song/image. Whereas more emotional, serious songs with slower beats tend to have more universal lyrics because of the emotions expressed. So I end up looking for interpretation and it gets a little boring when every kiss is a kiss.
So, there's that difference in expectations that makes it some people like a vid and not like others. Not that they don't like a certain type (narrative vids) or whatnot, but that sometimes it takes a while to figure out what type this vid is. I have seen vids that I thought were one type only to realize that I was wrong, revised my earlier assumption, and re-watched to greater enjoyment. But what can happen, as it has with me, is that I watched a vid, didn't realize what type it was and thought, 'that vidder totally missed the point.'
So, as a vidder, you've got that working against you. You've also got the context in which the audience recieves the vid, like familiarity/fondness with/to the song, familiarity/fondness with/to the fandom, etc. Usually, vids are not vidded to songs I'm familiar with, so the first time I watch a vid, it's information overload. There's the old familiar images being reinterpretated in new ways and the new song I'm trying to absorb. Sometimes, I end up missing some lyrics and only catching them on a later watch. It's even worse with fandoms I'm unfamiliar with. I could enjoy the vid but not fully realize the signficance of the clips used because I have removed them from the context. Just like in the way a person who hasn't seen Gattaca may have not been aware that of the extent of the Vincent/brother struggle and so that part of your vid (young Vincent) may not resonate as strongly. They may get it (Vincent ripping himself out of the family picture) but you need to be familiar with the context to get the full impact.
Admittedly, too, it's easier to get into the song if it seems to fit the fandom. Like a LotR vid set to Indian belly-dancing music would probably make a lot of people go 'WTF.'
Basically, what I want to say is that, as a vidder, there are a number of factors working against you and a number of reasons why you may not be able to reach a certain audience. It helps that you include notes with all your vids, because then I know what to watch for and appreciate. Even a line summarizing the vid can be a great help for someone like me to figure out the goal of the vidder.
I've found that your vids are strong on symbolism and parallelism, to the extent that you even end up creating your own symbol. Like in your PotC vid, 'Gravity,' the coin almost seems to stand for Jack's need for vengence against Barbossa, and when it's dropped, his life takes a completely different direction. Sometimes, your use of parallelism makes the vid almost seem circular and I can see why people would get put off by that. It's like they get a 'we've see that before, enough already' vibe. I like it just fine, but then I like your vid style. I am such a technophile. I love it when vidders show off their skills with filters, fades, matching images to beats, etc.
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NEAT THOUGHT! mind if I quote it in my post?
I have seen vids that I thought were one type only to realize that I was wrong, revised my earlier assumption, and re-watched to greater enjoyment. But what can happen, as it has with me, is that I watched a vid, didn't realize what type it was and thought, 'that vidder totally missed the point.'
ahhhh. Question, did you get that with my Gravity vid? 'cause it totally wasn't a Jack Sparrow character study, but more of a me-and-my-micro-fandom character study with Jack as a puppet/blank slate to project on
Basically, what I want to say is that, as a vidder, there are a number of factors working against you and a number of reasons why you may not be able to reach a certain audience. It helps that you include notes with all your vids, because then I know what to watch for and appreciate. Even a line summarizing the vid can be a great help for someone like me to figure out the goal of the vidder.
Would encouraging a line summary of a vid to vidders help for most vid-viewers you think?
I've found that your vids are strong on symbolism and parallelism, to the extent that you even end up creating your own symbol.
eee! thank you!
Sometimes, your use of parallelism makes the vid almost seem circular and I can see why people would get put off by that. It's like they get a 'we've see that before, enough already' vibe.
::nods:: that was one of the things that I was worried about in Hero vid, but that vid is so heavily laden with metaphor in a metaphor filled movie that I felt that I almost HAD to repeatedly bracket the scenes or they wouldn't even approach the intent that I'd arranged them with.
I like it just fine, but then I like your vid style. I am such a technophile. I love it when vidders show off their skills with filters, fades, matching images to beats, etc.
awww ::glompity::
wait...was it you who I'd first given that Jack/Will vid to, for a beta? I'm thinking of remastering it and releasing it, (finally)...
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Quote away! I don't mind at all.
Question, did you get that with my Gravity vid? 'cause it totally wasn't a Jack Sparrow character study, but more of a me-and-my-micro-fandom character study with Jack as a puppet/blank slate to project on
I sorta did get that with your Gravity vid. Let me explain. I thought it was a character study at the beginning and then realized that it wasn't really that. It was more of a hypothesis of how a faction of the fandom perceives Jack, what he's like underneath the humor. Your notes definitely cleared it up though. I usually like watching your vids multiple times to catch the nuances.
that was one of the things that I was worried about in Hero vid, but that vid is so heavily laden with metaphor in a metaphor filled movie that I felt that I almost HAD to repeatedly bracket the scenes or they wouldn't even approach the intent that I'd arranged them with.
I noticed the metaphors. There's a lot of phallic *snicker* imagery in that one. Swords, pens, spears, arrows. Hmm... wonder if that has anything to do with the themes of power in the movie? Like, the sign that a warrior is powerless is when they have their phallic symbol/sword/spear taken away from them. Whatever. I'll think about that later when I review the rest of your vids.
wait...was it you who I'd first given that Jack/Will vid to, for a beta? I'm thinking of remastering it and releasing it, (finally)...
Yes, it was me. Please do release it. I'm ashamed to admit that I use vids to get music. There's so many pros to that. You don't have to deal with KaZaa or P2P networks and risk the college cracking down on you, it's usually a song someone likes so there's less chance it'll be crappy, and there's the prettiness to accompany. I liked that song.
I'm so cheap.
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