Serenity and rage and desecration and High Drama

[permetaform]

My roommate and I were chatting about Serenity and she brought up the rage that people in the fan forums she found (non-LJ) were feeling over the treatment of Wash's death in the latter half of the movie. For a while I was at a loss because his death seemed to be treated consistently within the world of Firefly.

But....then again, it wasn't treated consistently with normal cinematic codes.

To explain, lets all flash back to Firefly, episode 1; specifically, Kaylee's Death Scene, or rather, Simon Finding Out About Kaylee's Death. When there was all dramatic music? Slow-mo? Blurry faces of extreme sentiment and woe?

That, I think, was as much Joss' poking fun at the conventions as he was doing a comedic turn; and Wash's death seen in light of this makes more and more sense. Of *course* time can't stop for Wash, they're in what amounts to be a war, there's no time for music, no time for sluggish movement, no time for your eyes to go blurry.

But...God. Wash, pinned to the eye of Serenity. Like the bodies Mal pinned to the outside of Serenity. Like a Reaver's ship.

Joss "desecrated our home", with Wash's death. And those parallels make such an awesome amount of sense to me, 'cause it explains some of the feelings around Wash's death relative to the movie. The body of Wash as desecrating the body of Serenity the movie.

And damn, that's guts, to trust in his movie enough that he knew that the impact of Wash's death would be felt even if he left out the codes of High Drama. He trusted that Wash made enough of an impact that he wouldn't *need* to manipulate the audience into feeling the tragedy.

Which, dude, bravo!

Comments

[modernmouse.livejournal.com]

I really respected his death and how Joss chose to treat it.

My issue was with the treatment of Wash as a character. He had so few lines, most of which seemed only necessary in order to move the action or plot along when things slowed. A perfect example being when they are on Miranda and everyone's freaking out about the bodies. Wash is all "Kay, let's go now, thxbai." And that's pretty much it. I was a bit dissappointed by this because he was my favorite character.

Other than that, I adored the movie.

[permetaform]

He had so few lines, most of which seemed only necessary in order to move the action or plot along when things slowed.

Ahhhhh, that makes sense, but considering the pace of the movie, and how much ground they've covered character-relationships-wise already, I'm not sure that they could fit any more in without it being Gone With The Wind Length.

Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?

[jackiekjono.livejournal.com]

One concern I had about the movie was that I didn't think they really had much time for Wash/Zoe and people who had not seen the show might not "get" them and wouldn't understand what was happening with Zoe at the end.

But - YES! - for those of us who knew and loved Wash already that was a real punch in the gut even without the violins. And taking time to grieve right there and then would have been deeply wrong for Mal and Zoe.

[klia.livejournal.com]

Those aren't my issues, either. Mine are: 1) killing Wash, full stop (I understood the other deaths in the Jossverse, but this one? Not at all); 2) taking out half of what was probably the coolest married couple *ever*; 3) killing Wash to make way for MarySue!River, and seeing her flying Serenity, with his dinosaurs and stuff still sitting there; 4) Simon, who brought all that shit down on everyone, finds happiness with Kaylee, while Wash dies and Zoe suffers? Fuuuuuuck that!

Sorry, it's been 4 days, and I'm still traumatized. I thought it was a good movie, but I doubt I'll ever see it a second time, or even watch the show DVDs again. I feel like I saw an old friend die in a senseless car crash, and I emphasize the word senseless. I'm gutted, and right now I really, *really* hate Joss.

[stungunbilly.livejournal.com]

I am sorry Wash got killed, because I feel narratively he added an element to the ensemble that is now lost. I am sorry because I loved him as a character, also, but any criticism I have over his death is based on the loss of an important function he played, not the way it was done. Except this: if Mal had been shown to grieve, later, or in fact *any* of the men had, I'd have found it easier to reconnect to the 'verse. The movie lacked much homosociality, and I missed it.

Re: Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?

[permetaform]

One concern I had about the movie was that I didn't think they really had much time for Wash/Zoe and people who had not seen the show might not "get" them and wouldn't understand what was happening with Zoe at the end.

Ahh, like that last Harry Potter movie where anyone who didn't read the books didn't get "the whole thing with the stag"?

[permetaform]

And this reaction makes sense to me. It's like Joss took Wash's body to string across "Serenity", like a Reaver's ship. It's a desecration of a fannish home.

I feel an aching grief that Wash died because his character was awesome but I think that perhaps I initially loved Firefly-as-a-unit (rather than through the characters) that I don't have the strength of your reaction.

I'm not sure how to respond to your reactions with River and Simon; it sounds like they're the drunk drivers of "the car crash"?

Re: Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?

[jackiekjono.livejournal.com]

Or the new Harry Potter movie where people who have never dated Chris Simer will not know that *casting spoiler* is playing him yet again.

*bangs head on table*

[permetaform]

Except this: if Mal had been shown to grieve, later, or in fact *any* of the men had, I'd have found it easier to reconnect to the 'verse. The movie lacked much homosociality, and I missed it.

In a way...I think I registered it less as men grieving and women grieving rather than immediate family grieving (Zoe, who got the closeup) and the extended/found family grieving, which was the long shot of the graves and the sequence of repairing the ship. I think it might be due to how I connect allowing grief to allowing healing, so the extended sequence when they were shown fixing Serenity with the music layered felt as bittersweet as grief...the sadness carried through and then past it.


because I feel narratively he added an element to the ensemble that is now lost

Which is how a loss *should* feel, I think. Death without a real loss doesn't matter...

Re: Have you ever been with a Warrior Woman?

[permetaform]

who? o.0

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Actually one of the big problems I had with Wash's death is that it was following cinematic cliche - in action movies, one of the plucky sidekicks invariably bites the bullet, for a touch of pathos. And maybe there's a couple tears shed over it, but not terribly many because action movies are about the kicking of butt and the blowing up of shit, and you're supposed to be happy in the end because the hero and his girlfriend make it through (...and okay, as a Mal/River fan I loved the final scene. But still.) In a TV show, killing a character suddenly and pointlessly is a striking, affecting event, because it's rare; in a movie, it's old hat, and to me it made Serenity feel more like a standard blockbuster and less of what made Firefly special.

...but then I was in it for the loveable characters and the witty dialogue anyway, so I'm bound to mourn the loss of one who was a major part of both.

[niqaeli]

See, I get why people are rageful. I just... disagree.

I feel that Wash's death was necessary to the story. I think Joss treated it exactly right. He caught me literally mid-laugh and it felt like someone punched me in the gut, no exaggeration. It felt exactly like someone punched me in the gut, complete with winded and inability to breathe and overall disbelief. I had tears in the corners of my eyes. And I would have cried, but there was no *time*.

I can see where people are seeing it as a cinematic cliche, but, really I read it as anti-Hollywood. Joss very intentionally didn't leave us time to process it. Mal and Zoe and everyone else didn't have time to process it. We don't get time to process it.

But it did leave me absolutely terrified for everyone. For the rest of the movie, and especially at their last stand... I swear, I thought they were all going to die and it was going to be a meaningless last stand for Serenity and oh god that very idea hurt. Joss managed to make me doubt the Hollywood ending wherein there is some kind of happy if not a true ever after. Considering that I went in knowing that he had material for further movies and pretty cynical about movies in general, that's pretty fucking impressive.

So while on some level I suppose I understand the rage, I don't really. I was pretty much, "Joss, you got it right and I love you, you motherfucking bastard."

But I guess how you relate to the show informs how you relate to the movie, and, apparently, as ever I relate to the show in a way very different from much of the fandom.

[wintersweet.livejournal.com]

From a non-series-watcher's perspective the death was pretty annoying, because it felt like "We didn't bother developing this character much so we're gonna kill him off now." I think that was a bad choice if they want non-Firefly fans to watch the movie, which they had better if they want a sequel. If I had no idea the series existed, I would have been annoyed that the character was in there in the first place.

But I liked the rest of it well enough.

[klia.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how to respond to your reactions with River and Simon; it sounds like they're the drunk drivers of "the car crash"?

Sort of. Or, maybe they were the ones who threw the party, served way too much alcohol, then handed over the car keys. Or something. :P

Sorry, I'm still too discombobulated to make any sense.

[permetaform]

::nods and hugs::

[maymorning.livejournal.com]

I've not sen it yet (it only began in the UK yesterday) but I have read the novelisation. To be honest, I never cared for Wash anyway. I found the whole "jealous of Zoe's friendship with Mal" thing irritating. It is such a whopping cliche that a bloke will be naturally jealous of his wife's previous life. I didn't like him much at all! What did make me sad was Shepherd Book's death. I really liked Book, he was a bit like Rev in Andromeda but much more fun. (That hair! LOL!!) And we still don't know who he really was (though I have my suspcicions).

[blu-mondae.livejournal.com]

I don't follow Firefly on-line fandom, so I was not aware that some people took Wash's death that way. And now that I know about it, I'm wondering where it's coming from. Wash died in typical Joss-verse fashion: unexpectedly, shockingly, and painfully (for the audience). Like any number of major characters did in Buffy and Angel (I'm being vague to avoid spoilers). I came out of the theatre cursing him for doing it to me AGAIN, but loving him for it. Lack of dramatic music, slo-mo, emoting--that's exactly what makes it hurt so much.

A friend and I are collaborating on a story right now, and we've been working on a very hairy fight scene; the end of Serenity really did an excellent job of conveying the atmosphere we're trying to capture: horrible things happening all around, friends dying, but the main character just doesn't have time to process it, 'cause if he stops, him and all his not-dead friends will die, too. If we can express it half as well as Joss & the cast did, we'll be awesome.

[cluegirl.livejournal.com]

Can I just pause for a moment to express severe icon envy? Cos... dude, I'm so there...

[xparrot.livejournal.com]

Following up my own thought, because reading some of the comments posted after is very interesting - it seems that there's (very broadly speaking) two types of FF fans, those who were into it for the overall story and themes and universe, and those who were into it for the characters. People into it for the former for the most part approve of what happened, because it does fit some of the themes and was a fairly unexpected event (I had heard some spoilers before - I knew Book and someone else was going to die - so that did color my experience; I didn't get entirely shocked, nor did I have the edge-of-my-seat wondering who else was going to bite it). I can understand this perspective, and to be honest, I wish I could share it. Because I'm coming from the other side, that one of my favorite characters was chopped down before he was ever really developed (I think he was the most underused of the cast in the TV show, though I really think had it even been allowed a whole season he would have caught up) and one of my favorite het pairings ever was shredded, and the only way I'm ever going to really be able to enjoy the show again is by simply denying that it ever happened. Not saying this is the 'right' emotional response, but hell, it's entertainment. There's enough angst in real life to deal with, I don't have to work through my emotions about fiction!

Also to be noted, I've never seen Buffy, so I'm not used to Joss's style. Now I'm not sure I really want to see it.

I also have to note that the other thing that made it feel both cliche and ticked me off, was that Book's death did get all the dramatic angsting in proper cinematic 'prod the hero into action' style. Contrasting that with Wash's death makes Wash's seem that much more like 'must kill off a random char to prove how dangerous this place really is'. To some, the lack of melodrama felt like a realistic battle situation; to me, when Kaylee still had time to humorously work out her relationship with Simon in the middle of all that stress, and no one hardly sheds a tear for Wash after it's all over - it felt like Book's death was the one that really mattered, and Wash was just a soon-forgotten casualty, hardly more significant than Mr. Universe or the little boy in Book's camp. Which maybe was the point. But it still leaves a bitter taste.

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

I came out of the theatre cursing him for doing it to me AGAIN, but loving him for it.

Exactly. That was my reaction too. The Jossverse is not a cozy place, people can and will die, and it will happen when you don't expect. I thought it was a great move cinematically, and the film was all the better for it.

I just don't get the angry reactions. Would these people prefer Joss wrote Next Gen with better dialogue, where you know everyone will still be alive next week? ::puzzled::

[mgsmurf.livejournal.com]

Am I sad Wash died and in such an ironic way? Yes, I'm always sad when a character dies and I think if it was well done should be. I suppose I get why others could be angry, but don't feel it myself.

I did care more about the emsemble than the individual characters, so although this will change the dynamic and something will be missing without Wash there, the emsemble lives on and will prevail. That's the way things and life work.

Someone else mentioned action adventure deaths of minor characters, and Wash's death did fit into that, especially if you didn't have such a feel for his character as there just wasn't room to do so in the movie. Although, you've got to wonder if some of this is that the Wash character was one of the more unique character types, as opposed to some others that were rather cliched, so would be harder to explain to new viewers in 2 hours.

In the theater though, killing Wash was the point I really started worrying. If Joss could kill such a "heart of the show" character who else wouldn't survive, would he kill them all? It proved to me he could and would kill every last character if he felt it was needed, and that was some of the most angst I've seen watching anything for a LONG while.

Also (as I'm being long anyway), killing Wash brought out some good points to Zoe. All of a sudden she was back in war mode. You got the feeling what she wanted was to collaspe on the floor, to throw herself at the Reevers, but she couldn't do that, so she was back to who she'd been pre-Wash in the war. If there is a sequel Zoe and even Zoe/Wash will be more evolved because of her reaction to his death.

[kassrachel.livejournal.com]

Yes. Exactly. What you said.

Except that I did cry the first time I saw it; I stuffed my first in my mouth so I wouldn't make any noise, and just sat there in my seat and shook. It was a more physical and startling grief than I'm used to feeling, even though movies and tv often move me profoundly.

The second time I saw the movie, it still hurt like a motherfucker, but it was easier to take, knowing it was coming. And since then I've been rewatching episodes, and am loving seeing both Wash and Book alive again. "War Stories" in particular just knocks my socks off, especially knowing how Wash's story is going to end...

[technocracygirl.livejournal.com]

I cried the first time. I cried more the second time, because I knew I wasn't going to laugh. I had to put my hands up to my face and do my best to go for the "silent cry," because otherwise, I would have been disturbing everyone around me with the same sort of loud, heaving sobs that I reserve almost exclusively for the deaths of real people.

Here via metafandom

[invisionary.livejournal.com]

Really, though, that was true of a lot of the characters. Serenity was a movie about Mal, Zoe, River, and to a lesser extent, Simon. The characterization of everyone else was pretty thin. I don't think people who haven't seen the show would have cared that much about Wash, or Kaylee, or Inara, etc. And honestly, I don't think they were given much reason to. In my opinion, they were no more (or barely more) significant in the film than Mr. Universe was.

And yes, I did like the movie. I just don't think it made very good use of the ensemble.

[permetaform]

Although, you've got to wonder if some of this is that the Wash character was one of the more unique character types, as opposed to some others that were rather cliched, so would be harder to explain to new viewers in 2 hours.

mmm, yes, that's a great thought. I think you might be right, and also if they added more character interaction the movie would have been Gone With The Wind length or something. ::wry grin::


If Joss could kill such a "heart of the show" character who else wouldn't survive, would he kill them all? It proved to me he could and would kill every last character if he felt it was needed, and that was some of the most angst I've seen watching anything for a LONG while.

::nods:: I so hear you on this. Actually I noticed it affecting me even more watching it the second time which was great and shuddery all at the same time.


You got the feeling what she wanted was to collaspe on the floor, to throw herself at the Reevers, but she couldn't do that, so she was back to who she'd been pre-Wash in the war. If there is a sequel Zoe and even Zoe/Wash will be more evolved because of her reaction to his death.

Yes!! ::nods:: that's such a great point! And the fact is, that Wash *can't* be replaced, it'll never be the same dynamic. It's literally a *loss* and would very much provoke a evolution of the dynamic should there ever be a sequel.

[permetaform]

I came out of the theatre cursing him for doing it to me AGAIN, but loving him for it. Lack of dramatic music, slo-mo, emoting--that's exactly what makes it hurt so much.

::nods:: yeah. And it's just...it's loss. Firefly can't ever be the same again without Wash; it'll evolve, and I like that even though there's this heavy sense of regret and ...well.. loss.

[permetaform]

Would these people prefer Joss wrote Next Gen with better dialogue, where you know everyone will still be alive next week? ::puzzled::

::shrugs:: I was thinking that too; but I think it's sorta like fannish betrayal? Like a "you hurt my happy place" kinda thing?

[permetaform]

::nods:: did you think that he was perhaps an agent of the Alliance too??

[permetaform]

Ahhhh, okay. Thank you! That makes a sort of sense.

[permetaform]

::nods:: actually the second time was a lot stronger for me too, I think almost 'cause I was bracing for it there was even more of a shock? (if that made any sense ::cringes::)

[permetaform]

I was pretty much, "Joss, you got it right and I love you, you motherfucking bastard."

But I guess how you relate to the show informs how you relate to the movie, and, apparently, as ever I relate to the show in a way very different from much of the fandom.

::nods:: or almost, I think, how much you're willing to let your fannish happy-place evolve? 'Cause Wash's death means that Serenity is now a very different ship, his death is a *loss* and it can't be replaced. It can't. So the ship's feel is different and so I think it's almost...not "home" anymore?

I mean, the fannish experience is all about the "more"; ie. "I want more source and since there isn't any I'll find fic". But with the death it's tons harder to write in-canon fic that preserves the quality that drew people into Firefly initially. It's almost Catch-22, come to think of it. ::wry grin::

[permetaform]

Regarding Book, I thought his death was much less effective than it could have been. I was far more shaken by the image of Mal in front of the console with all the burning places right after than with Book's death itself. Kaylee acted like Kaylee, for lack of a better term; it was sort of out of tone and could have been framed better, but it was also very much *her*.

Thing is, I felt Wash's death resonated way longer than Book's death. It was in the way that Zoe went opaque and I think part of why Simon stated his regret so clearly to Kaylee and they way that entire sequence was pitched so much tenser than it could have been otherwise.

Wash's death is a loss and there's no way that it couldn't have been a loss and Serenity can never be the same ship and Firefly would never have the same dynamic, because it changed. And should there be a sequel it will keep changing...and it's sort of like a Catch-22.

[mgsmurf.livejournal.com]

Yes!! ::nods:: that's such a great point! And the fact is, that Wash *can't* be replaced, it'll never be the same dynamic. It's literally a *loss* and would very much provoke a evolution of the dynamic should there ever be a sequel.

Every loss should do that, and perhaps it's why if the aftermath is handled well I'm fine with character death. It's part of the story and life whether or not there are fans that would rather not have to deal with death.

And man are my Zoe/Wash muses spinning so much more knowing Wash's end, knowing what it likely meant to Zoe, wondering if she thinks the love was worth it. Although, was watching "Heart of Gold" the other night, and she states while talking about having a child, 'I'm not so scared of loosing something to not try for it,' or some such. Of course, her and Wash not getting that child is another issue, something else that's missing. Yep, liking the ship more with the death than before.