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Assumption: Will does not have his head on straight what with his Elizabeth obsession and Jack just has tons of failsafes, emotionally, in place.
So why Jack/Will?
Because of the miffed way Will said, “I suppose you didn’t deserve that one, either?” and his face when he said this.
Because when Will appears after the Interceptor explodes, one of the first faces who turns to look is Jack, *after* which you get a shot of Elizabeth going “Will!”
Because of Will’s look in the cave scene when Elizabeth and him was interrupted, kinda a lowering of the eyes, like masks falling back into place and the way he says, mechanically, to Elizabeth ‘you should be getting back to the Dauntless’.
Because of the look on Will’s face when Jack implies in the last scene that something happened with Elizabeth on the island, (said it’s not going to work out with Elizabeth), and Will looked downward, a bit sad?, in response and because of his subsequent sideways smile when Jack said nice hat, and Jack’s pause at saying nice hat, and Jack’s not taking advantage of Will to improve his legend more.
Legend you ask?
Jack is very conscious of his own legend, which he made himself and aggrandizes, (“you will always remember this day as…”). The whole point of that speech just before he fell was to create a distraction (never mind that he’s distracting them with *himself*) so that he could escape and Jack boosts his own legend at the same time. He gets in the faces of the Governor of Port Royal himself and the Commodore responsible for wiping out most of the pirates by that time, sideways also giving himself an out with Norrington ("look, I'm on *your* side, not the whelp's"), also to show that they’re buddy buddy. He increases his legend in the same way with Elizabeth, he basically saying, in front of a group of *soldiers*, "sorry, turned *you* down", thus increasing his own image as a playboy. And then he gets to Will, a hero-type-person whom he mentored, with the blood of pirates and with‘pirate’ tendancies, and for whom he has loads of teasing saved up for, and what does he say?
nice hat.
And, this the thing that convinced me actually, is the way that they are just, settled already into each other's space, physically, habitually, and gramatically.
Will intrudes in Jack’s physical space as much as Jack does his, and Will usually holds this space around himself, even with Elizabeth until the scene where she steps into the circle of bayonets as well, which is the only other time that Will is that in sync with someone else’s space. Will manages to keep up with what Jack’s speeches, he finds the loopholes in Jack’s reasoning, and understood him, up to a point, the cave scene when he steals the coin and about the honest and dishonest men. And in the bit about the “hair…from my back”, where Gibbs looked satisfied with the explaination, Will still looked unconvinced. The only other person shown to be able/willing to second-guess Jack was Norrington, who was actually outwitted twice (commanderring the Interceptor, and the last skeleton battle) and Barbossa. Incidentally, those are also favorite pairings. But I'm not trying to argue that here, so. Back to the Jack/Will.
In the beginning, there was somewhat more of a mentor-student dynamic going on, but it progressed to, if not entirely equals, then to a more equal footing. Will is pretty much one of the few, if not the only, who could keep up with Jack. This is noteworthy because, ok going into Jack analysis here, Jack *forms* his own personal space.
Jack, with all his motions, encourages people to lean away to give him space and to give themselves space so that they could watch him. Notice throughout the movie his interactions with people, there’s like a space created for him, and he *controls* it because
1) he forces people to make room for him and
2) because he encroaches into other people’s spaces.
He basically has control of the space at any given moment, people that try to control it instead are either tangled up (i.e the first scene with the redcoats and jack), obstructed (barbossa), or swatted away (ie. the cave scene, with bo’sun and various pirates). Will somehow manages to maintain staying in Jack’s personal space without getting tangled up himself and getting in Jack’s way. The only other person who held his own against Jack’s manipulation of this personal space is Norrington, but this also caused Norrington to try to outmaneuver Jack to disastrous results. True, this may be simply that he’s mirroring Jack. Then again, he doesn't mirror Elizabeth until the last scene. And in the bonfire/rum scene when Elizabeth and Jack were mirroring each other, it got on the far end of cliché, and there was tension yes, but awkward tension. Note how far Elizabeth had to lean to settle into Jack's shoulder.
Perhaps there’s no thick and sizziling tension between Jack and Will, but there doesn’t need to be because it seems like its somehow already resolved, like there’s already understanding and they’ve been married for ages and the slash goes right under the gaydar.
You could say, then, that this is just the pirate form of the buddy cop movie.
Then again, we've already seen where they've taken the buddy cop movies…
So why Jack/Will?
Because of the miffed way Will said, “I suppose you didn’t deserve that one, either?” and his face when he said this.
Because when Will appears after the Interceptor explodes, one of the first faces who turns to look is Jack, *after* which you get a shot of Elizabeth going “Will!”
Because of Will’s look in the cave scene when Elizabeth and him was interrupted, kinda a lowering of the eyes, like masks falling back into place and the way he says, mechanically, to Elizabeth ‘you should be getting back to the Dauntless’.
Because of the look on Will’s face when Jack implies in the last scene that something happened with Elizabeth on the island, (said it’s not going to work out with Elizabeth), and Will looked downward, a bit sad?, in response and because of his subsequent sideways smile when Jack said nice hat, and Jack’s pause at saying nice hat, and Jack’s not taking advantage of Will to improve his legend more.
Legend you ask?
Jack is very conscious of his own legend, which he made himself and aggrandizes, (“you will always remember this day as…”). The whole point of that speech just before he fell was to create a distraction (never mind that he’s distracting them with *himself*) so that he could escape and Jack boosts his own legend at the same time. He gets in the faces of the Governor of Port Royal himself and the Commodore responsible for wiping out most of the pirates by that time, sideways also giving himself an out with Norrington ("look, I'm on *your* side, not the whelp's"), also to show that they’re buddy buddy. He increases his legend in the same way with Elizabeth, he basically saying, in front of a group of *soldiers*, "sorry, turned *you* down", thus increasing his own image as a playboy. And then he gets to Will, a hero-type-person whom he mentored, with the blood of pirates and with‘pirate’ tendancies, and for whom he has loads of teasing saved up for, and what does he say?
nice hat.
And, this the thing that convinced me actually, is the way that they are just, settled already into each other's space, physically, habitually, and gramatically.
Will intrudes in Jack’s physical space as much as Jack does his, and Will usually holds this space around himself, even with Elizabeth until the scene where she steps into the circle of bayonets as well, which is the only other time that Will is that in sync with someone else’s space. Will manages to keep up with what Jack’s speeches, he finds the loopholes in Jack’s reasoning, and understood him, up to a point, the cave scene when he steals the coin and about the honest and dishonest men. And in the bit about the “hair…from my back”, where Gibbs looked satisfied with the explaination, Will still looked unconvinced. The only other person shown to be able/willing to second-guess Jack was Norrington, who was actually outwitted twice (commanderring the Interceptor, and the last skeleton battle) and Barbossa. Incidentally, those are also favorite pairings. But I'm not trying to argue that here, so. Back to the Jack/Will.
In the beginning, there was somewhat more of a mentor-student dynamic going on, but it progressed to, if not entirely equals, then to a more equal footing. Will is pretty much one of the few, if not the only, who could keep up with Jack. This is noteworthy because, ok going into Jack analysis here, Jack *forms* his own personal space.
Jack, with all his motions, encourages people to lean away to give him space and to give themselves space so that they could watch him. Notice throughout the movie his interactions with people, there’s like a space created for him, and he *controls* it because
1) he forces people to make room for him and
2) because he encroaches into other people’s spaces.
He basically has control of the space at any given moment, people that try to control it instead are either tangled up (i.e the first scene with the redcoats and jack), obstructed (barbossa), or swatted away (ie. the cave scene, with bo’sun and various pirates). Will somehow manages to maintain staying in Jack’s personal space without getting tangled up himself and getting in Jack’s way. The only other person who held his own against Jack’s manipulation of this personal space is Norrington, but this also caused Norrington to try to outmaneuver Jack to disastrous results. True, this may be simply that he’s mirroring Jack. Then again, he doesn't mirror Elizabeth until the last scene. And in the bonfire/rum scene when Elizabeth and Jack were mirroring each other, it got on the far end of cliché, and there was tension yes, but awkward tension. Note how far Elizabeth had to lean to settle into Jack's shoulder.
Perhaps there’s no thick and sizziling tension between Jack and Will, but there doesn’t need to be because it seems like its somehow already resolved, like there’s already understanding and they’ve been married for ages and the slash goes right under the gaydar.
You could say, then, that this is just the pirate form of the buddy cop movie.
Then again, we've already seen where they've taken the buddy cop movies…
no subject
My first impressions on the hat line. I actually interpreted it as Jack not quite knowing what to say to Will in his terms of farewell. For me, Jack seemed to be a bit hard pressed to find something good to say about Will. After all, Will did have a certain habit of ruining Jack's plan almost to the point of oblivion.
And voila, the hat was there, and Jack said: Nice hat. And to me, Will seemed a bit confused and perplexed in a sort of: Erm... thanks... kind of way.
And as for my opinions on Jack, they're a bit unresolved as of yet.
no subject
Will's hat? So not cool.
Hence, Jack called him on it. XD
no subject
but WHY? Of all the comments he made then, that was the only purely personal one, one that the audience doesn't care about and won't pay attention to and won't add to the reputation of Capt. Jack Sparrow.
There's more in the vein in my comment to calichan ::points up the thread::
no subject
yes, precisely. This is Captain Jack Sparrow, weaver of stories and legends and his own myth who can talk his way around people until their dizzy and can't tell their own ideas from what he's put there.
And he can't find a thing to say except "Nice hat?".
For me, Jack seemed to be a bit hard pressed to find something good to say about Will.
er? clarification? because he didn't say anything good about the Governor, he's encouraging Norrington because it makes him look chummy with the Establishment and so that he'd be more lenient, and he did a wicked turn on Elizabeth's reputation and honor.
After all, Will did have a certain habit of ruining Jack's plan almost to the point of oblivion.
...and this is a bad thing how? I like the sideways mini-confrontations they have, the snarkiness and the confrontation. The----should I dare say it??----the one-upsmanship of the two.
Their is a very wierd dynamic, because of the betrayals, because of the mentor-student aspects, because of the Pinky and Brain kinda thing (but who's Pinky and who's the Brain?), as well as something that reminds me a bit of the situational one-upsmanship in Little Nemo between Marlin and Dory. Only not.
It's more and less and freakishly *different* than any dynamic I've seen yet because of the odd balances between the characters, how Will has a higher class than a pirate but how Jack is a Captain (but only in certain situations!) and the age difference and yet Jack's childlike nature which is altogether *different* than Will's childside. Only not.
I've mentioned in another post how I like to be shown something new in writing, and *this* is one of the more unique relationships I have ever seen.
no subject
"This is Captain Jack Sparrow, weaver of stories and legends and his own myth who can talk his way around people until their dizzy and can't tell their own ideas from what he's put there.
And he can't find a thing to say except "Nice hat?"."
I differ from your point of view on Jack in the way that I believe that most of his manipulative, self-inflating attributes aren't *so* heavily based on conscious decision. I view him as a man who gets talked to alot by little voices that pop up from time to time. And he generally makes a conscious-subconscious blur of a type of choice to act on those voices to do his various characterized things... such as: Self promotion or manipulation or passive-agressiveness or whatever whatnot.
Okay, perhaps I shouldn't quote everything I'm going to reply to and just reply.
Let's see... my point of view on Jack boils down rather differently from what I understand your point of view to be (correct me if I'm wrong.) Your view of Jack is that he's, more or less, completely conscious of nearly every single behavior/act/word he does and that with every single thing he does there is an ulterior motive hidden beneath it.
My point of view of Jack is more... subconscious while being conscious of his subconscious... An odd medley and mixture of rational conscious decision and other more emotional forces at work within him. He enduldges in those subconscious erm... forces and thus we have his almost random, free spiritedness that is also mixed with his general goals of making Jack's life better, which can be expressed in many ways, self promotion as you've said before. But he's not completely instinctive or whatever you want to call people who are solely emotional, he consciously asesses each of those subconscious forces (I really do truly hate these terms and wish I can find something that's more suitable for what meaning I'm trying to convey) so that he isn't completely irrational.
Argh. Perhaps I need to think about what my views are on Jack some more before I can convey them more eloquently.
no subject
My concept of Jack is that he increases his own legend in the same way that some people are nice or some people are mean. He doesn't consciously work through each tiny little step in his brain, just like people are nice. Jack just *is*. He is majorly intuitive, (
And everybody uses a form of manipulation unconsciously, it's part of the habits and rules and workings of all human cultures.