a mindless ramble on the judgement of 'Yaoi' and anime fandoms thereof.

[permetaform]

hmm, how do I explain this? gah. different fandom conventions there?

For instance, there's no conventional ratings. There's just a note on whether it's "lemon", "lime", or "citrus". Lemon is fucking, lime is groping or oral, citrus is petting and snogging. All in all I find I like that system better than the ratings system which I never *could* make heads or tails of. I mean, fer gosh sakes, if you don't want anyone under a certain age to read it, labeling it with rating isn't going to help, really. All in all, it seems that the "ew!" factor was enough to keep most of my peer group from reading things we weren't prepared to handle. ::shrugs::

Oh, and I dunno, but yaoi just seems to be a highly...stylized? Compared to what slash is. More pink bubbles and dark rose petals and even the *suffering* is pretty. Really really pretty, in a way that slash isn't, and I KNOW I'm going to get arguments on this point from somewhere; but just the *feel* of it is less real and more...crystalline? Or just stylized.

Partly it's the source material I think, the highly exceptionally stylized art of very non-realistic features, in the way that "<3" is not a real, bloody and bleeding *heart*. It's *not* and is in no way realistic; it's fantastical and yaoi is less...gritty? than slash.

Knowing, also, that yaoi generally has a slightly younger fanbase, that might also explain some things.

Knowing, also, that there's been a mingling of the slash and yaoi fandoms these past few years and that I'm speaking from what I remember of the fandoms three years past.

Knowing, also, that yaoi comes more from a culture
of "perfection", and if it's your fantasy, why *not* make it perfect? (this is a rhetorical question. I am posing it in the mindset of another, "a walk in another's shoes" so to speak.)

I will state it plainly here: This IS a culture clash.

Say it with me now: Culture. Clash.

Different perspectives, different values. Easy to say, hard to live. And NO, there isn't really solid grounds for argument based on 'logic' in some issues, because while Person1 might think in terms of "A to B to C to D", Person2 might think in terms of "A to 1 to One to O", and Person3 might think in terms of "A > B > C and thus Cat".

Summary?

You can't make 'logical' arguments when your opponent's base values are different than yours.

Logic HAS no footing (no basis, support, or foundation) when the parties in discussion can't agree whether "1" means "first" or "least". Or for that matter, when neither party even realizes that there's a miscommunication along those lines.

::facepalm::

(btw, this is not directed to anyone. this has been stewing for a bit.)

[]

Oh btw.

This?

It's *exactly* what you think it is.

Ah, those Japanese. Shall we blame it on the hot springs and day-time porn? ;)

[]

Point of happiness:

Seeing this icon?

(moondog's)

...makes me happy.

Also? Whenever viva_gloria writes I'm happy.

Go read (Some Say The World Will) End in Fire

It's only the second piece of Norse Mythology slash that I've come across. And oooooooh, but it's good. It's deathly good and I love it on many levels, 'cause it's layered and deals with the Odin/Loki dynamic so fabulously.

And, really, there should be more Norse!slash. There just should. Where else can you not only get superpowers and literal talking heads and the fabulously beautiful and the famously ripped and neat weaponry and angsty drama and the Original Armageddon...

And! Canon Mpreg! Canon! Mpreg!

...though it's a bit fucked up that Odin kept the kid for his war stallion; but hey, the whole thing was partly Loki's fault anyhoo. (oh, and Odin wasn't the dad. A horse was. And it's not really beastiality. Really. 'Cause shapechanger, y'know? erm. I'm kinda not helping the cause here, am I? ::cringe:: I'm still blaming it on the meds)

Comments

[ciceqi.livejournal.com]

Um, cackles...I've written that. Loki/the giant's horse whose name escapes me. Uh...does it help to say that my slashfic is actually miles tamer than my origfic? *snickers* But keeping the kid as a warhorse doesn't surprise me, snerk...I mean, all of Loki's children were "monsters," whether he bore them or someone else did, and all of them got put to use in one fashion or another. I mean, look at Hel, the most normal-looking one of the lot. On the one hand, I think he scared the living daylights out of the other gods, taking the "But what if they breed?" line a little too far--on the other hand, I think they were rather more relaxed about the whole "Oh, the other father's a what?" thing cos, hey, their own bloodlines were a fairly mixed bag as it was.

That said, the only mpreg story you will EVER get me to write will involve aliens and belly-bursting parasites. Bwahahahaaaa...

As for yaoi-vs-slash, the main difference as far as I'm concerned is in the level of story resolution. With slash, a vig is a vig and is clearly marked. With yaoi, you takes yer chances. Even longer stories don't seem to have the real, satisfying plot/relationship resolution I crave, and so they're...tasty but not filling. Very, very beautiful, sure--but 3/4 of the time, I'm left feeling that nothing happened. Page count has nothing to do with it--I've read zillion-page yaoi epics that left me feeling like I'd been floating in a particularly pleasant drugged stupor for an hour or two, and yet feeling that the time was wasted, in a sense, because if all I wanted to do was stare at pretty things, I could go cruise the fanart sites. Whereas some slash drabbles--yours, for instance, come to mind!--say so much in terms of plot and development, spoken and unspoken, that a "mere" 100 words leaves me reeling and incoherent with "HOLY FUCK, YES!"

So to me, it seems like yaoi is much more static than slash--it tries to capture a moment in prose that couldn't quite be captured as an image--whereas slash is more dynamic, always digging busily away at the surface, whether it's a dog hunting up that last juicy skeleton in the closet bone or trying to tunnel under the fence to get somewhere. Which is a really silly metaphor, but what the hell, I'm drugged, I can get away with it, snerk...

And then there's PWPs, snerk...but that's a different babble with its own slash/yaoi differences...

Re:

[permetaform]

Um, cackles...I've written that.

::perks up:: *really*?? You don't say...::sidles off to read...::

::runs back to you and curls self around your legs:: dude. where? duuuuuude, where? ::looks up at you with full kitty eyes::

And, huh, I think you have a point with the whole "Really, Loki, just TRY not to have children with ANYONE, please? Please?" business, all's considering. ::ponders::

That said, the only mpreg story you will EVER get me to write will involve aliens and belly-bursting parasites. Bwahahahaaaa...

doooooooooo eeeeiiiiiiiiiiiit. ::grins and bounces:: Bonus points if it's Smallville. Extra bonus points if it's a crossover.

As for yaoi-vs-slash, the main difference as far as I'm concerned is in the level of story resolution.

Huh. Yeah, I could see that to; though it might also have to do with the Unholy WIP that occurs so much. (*snerk* really, the HP fandom doesn't even *compare*) You metaphor works methinks, I need to chew on this a bit more...

[ciceqi.livejournal.com]

::runs back to you and curls self around your legs:: dude. where? duuuuuude, where? ::looks up at you with full kitty eyes::

*snickers* Uh, origfic. NOT up on my slashfic site. In fact, it's so old, it was written in a notebook. By hand. I was such a warped child... (Hey, my first experience with kink was at the tender age of SIX, with the Chronicles of Narnia! Bondage, slavery, shaving, torture...god, that's such a great series... *cackling*) Uh, okay, it's probably only six years old. And if I can FIND the appropriate notebook, I'll type it in and hopefully salvage it. Cos, uh, no shame. Heh. But for a while there, I was slashing the Norse and Greek gods like MAD, even before I knew what slash was... *is especially happy with the Dionysus/Orpheus smuff, hee...*

doooooooooo eeeeiiiiiiiiiiiit. ::grins and bounces:: Bonus points if it's Smallville. Extra bonus points if it's a crossover.

For some reason, I always want to change the ending of "Fear." So that Obi isn't rescued, and the old queen laid eggs. Somewhere. And everybody DIES, bwahahahaahaaaaa... *coff* And this is probably why I can never find my Jedimuses. Hmph.

[permetaform]

Chronicles of Narnia

::blinkity::

y'know. I don't think I realized that until you pointed it out to me.

::blink::

whoa.

And YES! If you type up the Myth!slash, people will read it. Count on it. I'm being pining away for Norse slash for ages and the greek slash only got partially scratched with the whole Xena/Hercules thing...

And everybody DIES, bwahahahaahaaaaa... *coff* And this is probably why I can never find my Jedimuses.

'cause they're screaming in terror? yup, sounds a bit familiar. ::pets gringo-kitty::

[ciceqi.livejournal.com]

You know how you can usually tell a person's favorite passage in a book by letting it fall open where the spine cracks? Mine were pretty much permanently broken when they were killing Aslan, when that one prince was tied up in the Silver Chair, when...

*snickering*

I can probably find at least one Dio/Orph story for you next time I'm on the other 'puter, but I'll just email it to you, hee...and maybe next weekend I'll have time to dig boxes out and hunt for notebooks, yowl! For some reason, it was always about the Odin/Loki and the Dionysus/Orpheus...meh...

And apparently there's an anime thingy with Loki and Ragnarok--I say "apparently" cos I own it and haven't watched it yet, snerk! But lazulisong loves it and so I turned around and bought it, heh! I just can't remember if I caved to the pimp cos she wrote something for that fandom or because I'm weak, like a little girl. Waaaaah... Too bad I don't have a DVD burner, grumph.

[permetaform]

Mine were pretty much permanently broken when they were killing Aslan, when that one prince was tied up in the Silver Chair, when...

::grins:: and they thrash so prettily!

For some reason, it was always about the Odin/Loki and the Dionysus/Orpheus...meh...

hee! not with the complaining here...

and...anime with Loki and Ragnarok you say? what's the name? I'll try looking for it...

[ciceqi.livejournal.com]

Ooooops... *big eyes* Well, better late than never. The series is this:

http://www.animenfo.com/animetitle,1193,dyyfko,matantei_loki__.html

Still haven't watched my copy yet, heh, but one day...ONE DAY I'll get caught up on things like that...