potential panel at Escapade

[permetaform]

So it looks like I'm going to Escapade this year! Color me squeeful. =D And lierdumoa and I thought that we might do a panel this year and submitted this suggestion to the Escapade website.

Deus Dētrū́ditur Machina

Wherein "God is returned to the machine." TV shows that tell stories without the cookie cutter morality.

We’ve all lived through the Jossverse’s cult of redemption and the excessive sermonizing in Harry Potter fanon. Not every bad deed needs to be punished; not every protagonist is a hero. The panel will include discussion of the post-modernist themes of Stargate: Atlantis and Battlestar Galactica vs. the modernist themes of Firefly, etc.

Audience participation encouraged. (pardon our bad Latin)

Good idea/bad idea?

Comments

[fancyfox.livejournal.com]

Sounds awesome.

[permetaform]

::flying glomp::

[fancyfox.livejournal.com]

*snug!* Still dunno if I can go. And yeesh it's so far from Irvine! But now I really really want to.

[aliaswestgate.livejournal.com]

I think that's a great idea. *grins* Looks like i wont' be the only one working a panel this con season either. I'm running a Saiyuki Fan Panel at ACEN 2006 with a few friends this may.

But that just sounds like it would great fun to discuss. Anti-heros, plot intricacies, muddied concepts. Brainfood! If you get approved, you need to do a play by play or some type of reindition of it afterwards. *grins*

[permetaform]

=D will do! fashes says she'd be taking good notes...

[wildelamassu.livejournal.com]

...if I end up going again this year, I may have to sit in on that, provided it's not too early in the morning. *g*

[aliaswestgate.livejournal.com]

We're trying to avoid early morning. Minekura's Saiyuki isn't exactly kiddie material after all. ^_~ If we're lucky we can avoid the large draws like the concerts and the masquerade and get a good size audience. So late afternoon, early evening if we're lucky. We're just going to empahsize the 15+ content. Particularly in both versions of the tale we're discussing. hehe.

We have the approval, now all we need is the time slot. But do attend, do! I'd love to meet others from the fandom. ^_^ sychogrl and i have been to Acen twice to meetup, and this will be our third. Our first as panelists.

[wildelamassu.livejournal.com]

I generally can only make it to ACEN for one of the days (work, work, work), but I'd love to coincide with the Saiyuki discussion. If you don't mind keeping me posted about when the panel will be, my e-mail is wildelamassu at livejournal dot com.

[aliaswestgate.livejournal.com]

Will do!

[shrift.livejournal.com]

So it looks like I'm going to Escapade this year!

YAY!

[permetaform]

are you going too?

[shrift.livejournal.com]

I will be there with nestra, and I believe laurashapiro has claimed me for her bar-buddy.

nestra and I will have the hotel room of iPods and portable DVD players and margaritas as big as our heads, oh my! And, you know, I've been meaning to buy a laptop, so perhaps I should do that before Escapade...

[permetaform]

ooo! nestra is going! yay! And yeah, found out via morgandawn about Laura so I'm a-yay!

oooo, will there be vid-watching there, I presume? (and I'm planning to have a couple of SGA data dvds on hand for pimp purposes...)

[leviathanmuse.livejournal.com]

I wish I was going. I'd love that panel!

[permetaform]

::bounces:: I just hope that enough people want to see it at escapade so that it gets chosen.

[leviathanmuse.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, the people I know who'd be most likely going probably wouldn't... :(

[permetaform]

awww, ::pouty:: whyfore, would you say?

[leviathanmuse.livejournal.com]

They like happy endings and believe in right-thinking heroes, etc.

*Icon is killing me! Poor Steve!*

[permetaform]

ahhh. yeah. I can see that.

and yeah, Steve is upset that his foodstuffs are starving him...

[leviathanmuse.livejournal.com]

I liked Steve. But then I'm bad like that. I'm hoping they won't make the Wraith complete straw villains by the end of things. (I like well-done villains - noble or truly bad-ass)

[wildelamassu.livejournal.com]

So far I've managed to avoid almost all of the fandoms you'd be discussing, but I'd probably still go. Sounds v. cool. :D

[permetaform]

...you want me to send you eps of SGA? =D

[wildelamassu.livejournal.com]

...I should say no. I should say no. Time. Will power. Grades. Sixtyeleven other fandoms.

You'd do that? :D :D :D

[permetaform]

yes. email me your mail addy (kanzeyori@yahoo.com)

[nightengale.livejournal.com]

dude. You really oughta succumb to SGA already. ^^

[wildelamassu.livejournal.com]

House ate me. :D

[permetaform]

SGA is gonna eat you more.

[trensaddiction.livejournal.com]

That sounds fantastic! If only there could be transcripts... *laughs*

[permetaform]

eh, we'll try for really detailed summary? =D

[dualbunny.livejournal.com]

That sounds pretty darn interesting to me. :D

[permetaform]

::grins and bows::

[swanswan.livejournal.com]

OOoh that's briliant!! I'm on other side of world so no con for me, but I do have to say that I'd totally put firefly in a pmod context rather than the modern one! Mal is such an anti hero, dude. *imagines the fun she'd have arguing it*

[permetaform]

er...to do a proper response to this would be the panel, but I'm glad you commented because these are some of the issues we will address in the panel. We'll be doing a write-up of the panel afterwards though, and will point the link out to sga_newsletter.

But a quick response:

re: Mal - he's a Hero with issues and snark, and in denial of his looking for redemption, which was the whole push of Serenity the movie

[fledge.livejournal.com]

Hope you don't mind me commenting, but I won't be going to Escapade, so!
... Maybe I'm confused or missing something here, but... I would have said SGA was much more cookie-cutter than Firefly! Rodney is, frankly, a wanker in SG-1 but slowly redeems himself throughout the new series as his character is developed; the Wraith are, despite their biological imperative, portrayed as not just vicious, but evil; and we keep coming across the same old Nietschean societies just *one* rung behind Earth on the technological ladder, that always manage to snafu things up.

Whereas in Firefly, the entire team has a mixture of moralities ranging from the genuinely altruistic (Simon, Book; but even Book hints at a darker past) to the completely selfish and amoral (Jayne) and yet still manage to get along. They aren't looking for redemption or heroism, they are just out to survive, without being too bad along the way--but only if opportunity presents them with that choice. I thought this series was fantastically novel for its portrayal of real people, good mixed with bad and decidedly quirky morals, out to buck the authority figures of their milieu; how many other SF shows back the *rebels*, since the original Star Wars? And it has to be admitted that, despite the lurking undertone of ghastly deeds, the Alliance *does* provide for its citizens very well, in the main; I could draw many parallels with current Earth governments... they are not the evil protagonists of Darth Sidious, Goa'uld or Wraith proportions!

And as for Battlestar Galactica, I'm witholding judgement until we see more of the plot unfold. I can't tell what's going to happen, which is certainly a hook, and it definitely blurs the lines of good/evil dualism, but I can't really envision that the Cylons will win at the end of the day...

Those are my thoughts :) Not trying to provoke a row, just enjoy discussion!

[fledge.livejournal.com]

Oh damn, have just realised this is probably what you meant all along ::G::

I was confused by your post-modernist/modernist terms, I think, assuming that 'post-modernist' must be the interesting slant...

How come stark dualism, toeing the line etc. is post-modernist? That's surely a very old viewpoint in story...

I admit I don't know the terminology and that can't be helping!

[permetaform]

Not trying to provoke a row, just enjoy discussion!

oh, don't worry about it, this is the type of comments we wanted, Escapade is created on controversial panels.

[permetaform]

er...to do a proper response to this would be the panel, but I'm glad you commented because these are some of the issues we will address in the panel. We'll be doing a write-up of the panel afterwards though, and will point the link out to sga_newsletter.

But some quick responses:
Nietschean societies just *one* rung behind Earth on the technological ladder - ex. Ronon's gun is more advanced than anything Earth has

re: Wraith - they're just shepherds. ;D The pun is fun to be chewed on, and deliberate I think, esp after the commentaries.

re: Mal - he's a Hero with issues, and in denial of his looking for redemption, which was the whole push of Serenity the movie

[fledge.livejournal.com]

Hee well I'll look out for the write-up then! That sounds like a wonderful con, such a shame I'm on the wrong side of the Atlantic :(

Yes, Ronon's society is [was] advanced, but I never said his was one of the Nietschean ones ;) I meant the Genii really; I do love those eps, but really, how stereotypical can you GET? When you've met one evil Nazi human-alien race, you've met them all... (If you've watched Stargate: SG-1 as well, that is, and Trek, and... ...) The point is not about being behind Earth--we know that the Wraith stop humans in Pegasus from developing for the most part--but that the evil, backstabbing races *always* seem to be baked in the same mould in these programmes. Why can't the enemy be a bronze-age culture that simply found and uses the Gates? Lack of modern technology never stopped the ancient Greeks, Romans, Egyptians etc. from doing a lot of damage! *Is besieged by sudden thought of somebody--I suppose it would have to be Rodney--peeking out and breathing "Zulus! Thaaasands of 'em!"*

LOL I can't believe I never thought of the Wraith shepherding pun! *Groan*

Mal is the bestest, twistedest anti-hero-anti-villain evah *ggg*

[laurashapiro.livejournal.com]

I love it. I will so totally be there.

[permetaform]

oh neat! yay!

[coffeeandink.livejournal.com]

Are themes modernist or postmodernist? Because that is not usually how I see the terms applied.

Honestly, I'd avoid that panel, because the description sounds like you've already got a set of answers you want to talk about, rather than a set of questions you want to ask.

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

sounds to me like they're off to a good start with the PC portion of the panel (Purposefully Contraversial).

"Hey, you have too many set ideas. That is not a panel. A panel is where you have no set ideas."
"No, a panel is like a debate - I put forth my set idea and then you put forth yours. You know, like a debate: "The sky is *not* blue. Discuss."
"Is not?"
"Is too. See?"

[kassidy62.livejournal.com]

I deleted my note because I realized I should have just friended. Thanks for answering! I went to the home page and this is going to be so helpful - thanks for everything you're putting into it.

[morgandawn.livejournal.com]

Great idea - perhaps for those of us with creaky brains (or just BRAAAAAAINS!), offer an explanation of what post-modernist means to you at the start of the panel.