random post re:fanfiction and pro-writers

[permetaform]

So, I wonder.

Sometimes I don't get pro-writers, and their virulent hatred towards fic. I think, perhaps is that they feel all defensive and threatened.

I wonder, because for me, fanfic is like singing; I don't sing all that well, and I don't sing professionally. But I sing because it gives me joy, I sing because I can't *help* singing. And granted, most of my singing is in the bathroom or in the car, but I'm not going around going "OMG COPYRIGHTS" to people who sing for fun, 'cause while I sometimes sing tuneless songs most of the time I sing songs made by professional songwriters/artists. And sometimes I do riff and trills and grace-notes to decorate the song because it's fun to. Because I can't help it, because it bring me joy. I make no profit from singing, and I would say that most people who sing don't do it for profit.

Will the anti-fic people wish to rail against karaoke bars now, too? For violating the copywrite laws of singers/songwriters?

This post brought to you by metafandom and silly people.

[edit] "pro-writer" in the context of this post is referring to those who are using it as their label instead of "anti-fic", in particular the group that thinks that writing isn't valid unless you're getting paid for it (or eventually getting paid for it), and that anyone doing it for free is at best absurd and at worst a thief.

Comments

[iapetusneume.livejournal.com]

...maybe it's because I started out as a fanfic writer, but if any of my original work were ever to get fanfic? I'd take that as a compliment.

But that's just me.

[tiggymalvern.livejournal.com]

Exactly. Not that I write any original work, but if I did. Yeah, some of the fanfic would horrify me, but some of it horrifies me quite enough now, on behalf of the talented people who created the world.

I have so much love for the writers/TV show people around who make it clear they're fine with the fan world, including fic.

[ex-greythist387.livejournal.com]

Yes indeedy (http://www.strangehorizons.com/2006/20060814/novik-int-a.shtml).

permetaform, that's a perfect analogy, at least to my ear--thanks.

[glitterdemon.livejournal.com]

very well said.

[permetaform]

hee! thanks!

[metal-dog5.livejournal.com]

There is at least one professional writer, who immediately comes to mind, that should feel threatened by the quality of the fanfic set in their dry & dusty world. The obvious adoration for the characters by the fanficers made me seek out the original works - and ugh!

Now that I've got that out of my system, I'm leaning towards the idea that some pro-writers are worried that they aren't as good as the book sales indicate*, and fanfic will prove it. That's why they loathe the idea of people playing with their toys.


*I'm assuming that book sale figures aren't based on orders by stores, but actual sales by consumers.

[permetaform]

Madam Rice perhaps?

hmmm, yeah, I can see that defensiveness going on. And it's like the fact that...well, it's easier to make something good if you love IT a whole hella lot, instead of just loving getting PAID for it a whole hella lot.

[scarletseraph.livejournal.com]

I know that with my own writing, I'm far less concerned about copyright than I am misuse - which is why I try not to write fic if I don't feel I can get the characterizations down, and why I feel guilty on the occasions that I give in to things that aren't strictly 'right'. There are some of my characters that I'd take fic of as a compliment, or simply be amused by, regardless of the nature of the work - and then there are others that it would devastate me to see put in situations that aren't appropriate for them. Mostly the ones that I RP, since I view them differently than I do those that are only in prose-type pieces - though it's hard for me to explain the difference.

[permetaform]

::nods:: I can understand this 'cause I get pissed about bad characterization often. But sometimes there's stories that people need to tell, and it doesn't particularly matter the original casing that the story-props come in. I understand about the idea of it being proprietary, a sense of "this is my space"; but...I guess it's sorta like the presentation of oneself. You can present yourself in a certain way and hope that it gets read that way, but some people will always see you in a different way and there's nothing really that you can do to prevent that.

[cluesby4.livejournal.com]

What a marvelous pov! I have also been a firm believer of "there's nothing new..." These writers cannot tell me that their stories or ideas were not based on perviously written stories or incidents that have happen in RL. Writers are usually inspired by other writers. So they are in fact fanfic writers themselves.

[permetaform]

::nods:: that all words are derivative, yes. And also the situations that create great stories usually are cases of sustained contact with other creative minds. Most of the 'great' novels are written by groups of people who know each other and who read and beta each other's work. Most of the most revered paintings in the world are created by artists in studios with dozens of other artists, headed by a master artist. And so on and so forth.

I *almost* know what you said

[fashes.livejournal.com]

I mean... ::anne rice flash backs:: And then my brain sorta stops...

Re: I *almost* know what you said

[permetaform]

::nods:: indeed.

[kokkoryuha.livejournal.com]

I completely understand. And I love you for it.
I'm going to go sing in my car now. LOVE!

[permetaform]

heee!!! yes! sing it sister!

[ltlj.livejournal.com]

Not all pro writers have the same attitude as Lee Goldberg and his blog-toadies, by a long shot. It's always been my theory that Goldberg started his whole anti-fanfic thing because it seemed like a great way to get attention for his otherwise completely unknown blog.

[permetaform]

ahhhh, yes, that is understandable. silly people.

[iseult-variante.livejournal.com]

Word, at least for me. When I sing/write, it's for the joy of doing it, and how can that be so terrible? And usually I only sing/write what I love very much! :)

[permetaform]

::nods:: a compliment, rather, because we love it enough to not let go.

[geneli4.livejournal.com]

one of my friends is a pro-writer, and she had no problem at all with fanfic. she says since it's not for profit, it's just for fun, where's the bad in it? fanfic gets readers more and more engaged in whatever fandom they're into, and last time she checked, that was a good thing!

i like to credit for this attitude, but i think she'd probably feel that way even if she didn't know me. :P

[permetaform]

heee! But thank you for awesomely representing us!

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

Sometimes I don't get pro-writers, and their virulent hatred towards fic.

I think this sentence is giving a certain segment of pro authors more weight and power than they actually have or deserve. I know more pros who have no problem with fanfic than ones who do.

[liviapenn.livejournal.com]

Yeah, off the top of my head I can name at least five people *on my flist* who are published authors, who also write fic.

[alisanne.livejournal.com]

Excellent analogy.
Well put.

[permetaform]

=D thank you!

[grav-ity.livejournal.com]

I wonder, because for me, fanfic is like singing; I don't sing all that well, and I don't sing professionally. But I sing because it gives me joy, I sing because I can't *help* singing.

That is probably the best explanation I have ever heard...right down to the part where I suck at singing, but like it anyway.

Well said.

[permetaform]

hee! thank you!

[elspethdixon.livejournal.com]

*nods vigorously* I'm not sure why writing is considered an all-or-nothing zero-sum game (only original and publishable pro-fic is worthwile, and writing for fun is self-indulgeant trash and/or a waste of time and talent) when society at large sees nothing unusual about being an amateur musician, cook, needlepoint afficionado, gardener, etc.

If I took up the violin for fun, nobody would think that I was wasting my time because I had no plans to join the New York Philharmonic. I can sing in church choirs and in the shower and along with the radio while driving and nobody will think that I'm just pathetically apeing Toby Keith because I can't get a recording contract, or stealing Charles Wesley's lyrics because I'm too lazy to write my own hymns. If music, despite the RCAA's iron-clad copyright laws, can still be sung for fun, than why is writing fiction for fun so hard for some people to conceive of?

[permetaform]

See I wonder if it's almost a difficulty thing? like how people also look at you wierd if you like science or math, but it's easier making money from writing? Like it's just barely hanging at that level of difficulty that seems like a pain in the ass but still do-able?

[lebateleur.livejournal.com]

Best analogy in oh, I dunno, EVER. I'm with metal_dog5 in thinking that a lot of the ire comes from the fact that the ficcers are better writers than the bitching pros they're ficcing. Other pros seem to be distressed by the fact that their Star Wars/Highlander/X-Files official novels are nothing more than sanctioned fanfic.

Incidentally, karaoke bars pay pretty hefty amounts for their systems, which include royalties to the artists whose songs they use. This is why less popular songs have a tendancy to drop out of the books; they're not worth paying the fees for if no one's singing them.

[mgsmurf.livejournal.com]

I think I've always heard the most hatred from what I call wanna-be pro writers, people struggling to write and publish origfic. And then I've always taken it partly as jeolousy, because that struggle to get published is such a lonely, difficult and harrowing experience, and here you have people on your writing level playing and enjoying fanfic. They don't see the point that fanfic is a hobby, while wanna-be's are striving for a career (which would be writing = money only to them).

Most of the semi-pros and pros I've meet online are more curious than angry about fanfic. But then they're also speculative fiction writers that can be an od breed.

My guess on some pro-writers angry is about quality. The greater amount of fanfic writers are beginners and thus the greater amount of fanfic is not wonderfully written (although some can be wonderfully written). They may have issues with beginning writers, and with these beginning writers playing (not always well, as the pro-writer may think) with their creations.

[ninepointfivemm.livejournal.com]

I really don't get authors who are anti-fanfiction. They're squealching the creativity of some people who may, someday, be accomplished authors who just used the fanfiction as practice. Of course, I'm a big fan of JKR, Terry Pratchett, and Neil Gaiman, who are pretty laissez-faire about the whole fanfiction thing, but just the issue that someone is getting so upset about these characters being put into other positions is kinda stupid.

I mean, I'm of two minds, but not enough to justify being upset about fanfiction. The fans are not making money off it (or they shouldn't be), and they're sharing their love of a book/movie with others. I don't see how it's much different from the people who take something like Emma and turn it into Clueless. That could be construed as fanfiction, in a sense.

I just don't get people sometimes.

[permetaform]

::blink:: Clueless was Emma?? o.o

[strangemuses.livejournal.com]

The attitude of the pros towards fanfic is all over the map. Some don't mind fics set in their universe. Others love it. Others loathe the very idea. Lots fall somewhere in between. A lot are glad that fans like their work well enough to want to play in their world (though they don't necessarily want to read the fics). And at the other end of the spectrum, I know published writers who also write fanfic on the side under pseudonyms.

The reasons I've heard in the anti-fic camps run the gamut from pure self-protection (fear that a fan may claim that the pro 'stole' their story when the pro publishes a sequel, new tv episode, etc.), from authors who are merely trying to protect their copyrights for financial reasons to keep their world and/or characters from slipping into the public domain, to authors who don't just like people 'freeloading' off of the hard work they did in building the universe that the fan is now playing around in. Some authors do not like fans radically changing the personalities and/or destinies of their characters.

For myself, as a mod a huge fic writing community, I figure that if a given pro writer doesn't want fanfic set in their world, I respect the writer's preference and I don't allow stuff based on their work in the community. It's not as if there is any shortage of fictional universes for fans to play in.

[permetaform]

::nods:: point.

But...thing is, sometimes you can't help but play in the universe, because it's like breathing, because it eats your mind. What then?

[lurkerlynne.livejournal.com]

Mebbe they're just jealous. I'll take some of the fanfic writers over what I find on the shelves most days. Tho' considering all the books based on tv series and games available now, some people have absolutely no place to stand. ::sticks tongue out at prissy writers::

And I have a sneaking suspision that there are far more published writers playing on the internet than I realize.

[permetaform]

hee! yeah, I agree with you on the first count and on the second, there is there is! =D

[catalenamara.livejournal.com]

Great analogy!

[permetaform]

thank you!