ConCrit of Live Till I Die, by marycrawford

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Explanation: I'd offered concrit feedback here. marycrawford's up next with Live Till I Die (HtLJ, lyrics here).

_{To clarify my Vocab (for us to be on the same page):
feel - gut-feeling. Whenever I talk about 'how I feel' relative to a vid's beat, I'm talking about instinctive gut reaction, NOT emotional reaction
narrative - levels of storytelling, story structure
technique - the nuts and bolts of expressing a story
beat - includes musical beats and beats from every instrument including the human voice}

Overall Impression: I can definately see your love of the character here; I have a so-so recollection of the series (watched most of it, but a couple years past, was in the fandom for a long time). I'd forgotten how adorable Iolaus was until you reminded me! I can tell your a new vidder from the vid, but I can also see where you have potential. Nice song choice; it has fun stuff to work with and lovely potential for irony.

Narrative: What I've gotten from your vid is an Iolaus character sketch around his characteristic of upbeatness.

Now, thing is, you mentioned you're new at vidding and your style is thus so new that I'll tell you this: some vids don't need narrative at all. Other vids are solely about narrative. Still *other* vids use narrative as an organizing idea (ie. narrative as an outline for clips), but can be taken narratively OR non-narratively. And at this point I sense that you can go any which way because your style is still flexible to accomodate whichever.

Note that they'd be different audiences for these different vid-types with almost no overlap between them.

What I'm unsure of, at this point, is what your vid aesthetic is. ie. what you *like* to see in a vid and thus is the ultimate goal of your own vids. Are you aiming for a vid of character celebration? Are you aiming for an analytical vid essay? Are you aiming for the visualization of a piece of music?

Go with your gut instinct in the answer to these questions, 'cause that's where you'll make your best vids. Follow your gut, follow *your* aesthetic, 'cause otherwise you'd never be happy making vids. And if you're not on some level happy with your vids, it's THAT much harder to make the vid have that spark of something that makes the vid loveable.

I'm personally of the narrative-as-organizer mode, mostly I have an idea I want to express and a song that'll carry the idea, so I usually use narrative to help me organize the clips *within* the song and the overall idea. Where I'm coming from with is that my inherent concept of communication is via storytelling, and my inherent belief about storytelling is that 90% of the story is subtext, or in other words not directly told. In practice, this means that I'm squishing an idea that'll usually take 50 minutes to tell into 5 minutes, and thus I'd *need* a clear narrative or it'll end up being jumbled incoherence.

HOWEVER, if
1) the means of communication that *you* want to use to communicate to your *audience* in a vid and
2) if your overall belief about the method of communication doesn't match mine, then any advice I might give about narrative can be thrown out the window, because my advice wouldn't be steering you towards the goal you're trying to reach.

In any case, I'm not sure I can be helpful unless I understand better what you're trying to do. I'd welcome discussion on this in the comments because at this point I don't know what I can say without hindering your final goal for your vids.

Technical: In your comment in the initial post you mentioned that:

_{My lone finished vid is Live Till I Die. (It's also on the Escapade 2005 set.) Critical feedback very very welcome. I'm working on a second vid, in another fandom, and there are so many things that I have to gain a feeling for - color palettes, effects, intercutting, fast cuts, all the shiny that you handle so well - without losing the thread of the vid.}

First of all, don't try to swallow *all* that in one go; take only a little bit more than you can handle, and then a little more. Don't think about the issues simultaneously, 'cause your head will explode; instead lay one level down, and then look for other considerations.

In other words, I think that the way you're approaching the various vidding elements are opposite of what they should be: the 'thread of the vid' is key. Everything else just makes the thread stronger. If you are *losing* the thread of the vid by trying to handle the other stuff, then you need to reassess what the thread of the vid is. *Is* the thread about color? Is it about effects? intercutting? etc? If it isn't, then worrying about it isn't key. It's only key when the thread of your vid needs to be bolstered by something else.

Second? I love that even in your first vid you are already intentionally or subconsciously matching several different elements in the music to different elements in the visuals. I'll point this out more as I go through it bit by bit.

0:08 - great movement with the horns here

0:22 - "take the town" ::gigglefit:: too cute

0:26 - screaming on "die", nice!

0:27 - LOVE this clip to the horns here!

0:30 - love the movement to the music here with them jerking back from the falling stick

0:42 - "the blues I lay low" - HEE! great match of mood and irony here with the change in facial expression

0:53 - nice matching of the clap to the horn blast

0:54 - good with the bouncing to the beat

0:58 - good with Iolaus flying and then the lowering of his shoulders as he takes the golden apple and the appearance of Aphrodite on the chime sound

1:00 - "riding high" nice match of the swirl of the sound to the rising swirl movement that Iolaus makes

1:06 - good sequence here with the hitting, rolling down hill, carried by herc sequence

1:14 - good that you changed with the mood here, you did that with both content and visuals (it's dark and doesn't move much and his face matches)

1:21 - the clip here feels good, I don't know if it's 'cause it's a bar scene and it inherently matches the feel of the music here

1:24 - great arm movement to the horn

1:36 - nice match shot

Ending sequence - some nice match shots, compositionally it flows very well and a great clip to end it with as it goes to white.

One thing that may or may not be a good piece of advice (again, dealing with what vidding style you're aiming for) is that you might want to be careful about literal clips. Your literal clips match well to the music and to the lyrics, but it might help more if they were part of some larger theme.

Ending thoughts: I can see this vid playing well at a convention because it's easy to take in during one sitting. I can also see people complaining about it being too simple narratively. Personally I felt your joy at making this vid and your love of the character and I totally didn't mind having this vid on repeat as I was typing this review up, you have some engaging movement matches to the sound and I LOVE that.

Granted, I also didn't have any new revelations about the character while watching this, but then I watched this show alot. Emotionally, I'm not sure that I could say a complete thread was carried through all of this, so that there's emotional arcs in the vid. But take these comments with a grain of salt 'cause this could be completely off from the effect you're shooting for.

What I admit that I was disappointed by was that you didn't make the vid more ironic, because Iolaus died so freaking *much* during the show, and I think you just showed one of the deaths? Then again, I noticed that you took advantage of various mood changes in the source and used them in various ways to amusing effect.

I'll emphasize again that at this point you'd probably want to figure out what vids you like best, and perhaps *why* you like them. That'll help you figure out both what you'd like to see in your own vids and your potential audience.

I'll apologize for rambling so much in this review, I hope this was helpful in some way. Any additional thoughts, comments, critique (*especially* about my post itself) are all welcome!

Comments

[elynross.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure how to address a wider audience beyond the vidder, or rather: I don't know how to give concrit analysis in a way other that how I already am doing, could you elaborate on this? or give examples so that I could improve perhaps?

Oh, I don't think it's a matter of improving, necessarily! Just addressing a different audience. It's the difference, maybe, between constructive criticism and criticism/review. The former is for the vidder, the latter is for everyone else. You send feedback to an author; you talk about a story with your friends, what you liked, what you didn't, without (necessarily) regard for specifically what you'd change/how you'd change it.

And again, you're focusing on helpfulness; as a reader/reviewer, I focus on discussion -- although frankly, it's helpful for people to talk about texts, whether writing or vidding, both because it can clarify things for other creators, educate your audience as to the types of things you might look for, and intrigue people into wanting to read/view the text.

Really, this is making me want to do more reviews, if I can find the mental energy and make a choice as to what to review. *g* I'll think on it.

If I were reviewing Mary's vid for a larger audience, I'd have described particularly choices more fully, and then talked about why I picked those, what I liked or didn't like, or why. I'd talk about how the vid made me feel, what drew me, what put me off, what choices puzzled me, etc. Think of it in terms of a movie or book review, maybe? In addressing the wider audience, you're attempting to provoke discussion, have people join in as to where they agree or disagree -- basically, it's just one-half of a conversation, and you're hoping to inspire people to the other half.

Mind you, the times I did this on vidder, it tended to sink like a rock, with no response at all. Someone has to want to talk back. *g*

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I'd have described particularly choices more fully, and then talked about why I picked those

o.0 er. considering the length of my reviews already, I think discussing particular choices more fully will lead to my head exploding. My personal view on this is to only review what I think will help, and at this point I don't know if being more detail orientated is what is necessarily more helpful, and I would rather be more helpful than hurtful.

The thing with reviewing vids for larger audiences...I'm not even sure who this larger audience is, or even if there's a large enough audience base. Most vid-watchers I know are vidders themselves, and speaking as a vidder myself I would rather have helpful discussion. Most non-vidder vid-watchers don't usually seem to participate in vid-discussion; and I think (this is all theory) it's because vid-discussion not as vitally important to non-vidders as it is to vidders.

Vidders, I think, care more about discussion because it's their craft. It's like caring about POV and sentance structure and paragraph formation for fic-writers I think; for people who just lurk or are just readers, I don't know that they'd necessarily *care* about that level of detail. I know when I was just a reader that I, just speaking for myself, didn't care. I didn't have the time or energy to care, I just wanted the fic.

Especially when marycrawford indicated that she was a newbie vidder, I wanted to give her advice that might help, and not turn her off from critique in specific or vidding in general. As a vidder, I'm sympathetic to vidders, so I'm writing my reviews carefully because I know that pretty much the only people who'd have interest in these concrits are vidders themselves. That's where I'm coming from.

[elynross.livejournal.com]

My personal view on this is to only review what I think will help, and at this point I don't know if being more detail orientated is what is necessarily more helpful, and I would rather be more helpful than hurtful.

Oh, sure! I was just doing a "what if" -- if you wanted to review for a larger audience. It was my misconception that this is what you were aiming for in the first place, I realized.

The thing with reviewing vids for larger audiences...I'm not even sure who this larger audience is, or even if there's a large enough audience base.

I would say the popularity of VividCon indicates there is -- and a significant portion of our membership are non-vidders who love vids, myself included. And maybe the only way to... "educate" the audience, the people who say they don't know how to feedback on vids is to give them examples, I think, not on the level of your kind of concrit, which is more sophisticated and intimidating than your average viewer will perhaps want to attempt.

Vidders, I think, care more about discussion because it's their craft. It's like caring about POV and sentance structure and paragraph formation for fic-writers I think; for people who just lurk or are just readers, I don't know that they'd necessarily *care* about that level of detail.

I think you're underestimating at least a portion of your audience. Vidding isn't my craft, but I work hard at increasing my understanding and sophistication in viewing, and I know a number of other non-vidders who feel the same. I know others who have become vidders because they were interested in the discussions about vidding. Sure, vidders themselves have specific reasons for the interest, but I think you're limiting your potential audience unnecessarily -- and in some ways, perhaps, justifying the anonymous twit's perception that it's a closed circle. Yeah, lots of people won't be interested, but a lot of people love to talk about writing and what makes it work who aren't and have no desire to be writers.

In fact, I think that the level of vid-discussion you're talking about is really only "vital" to a particular kind of vidder, just like critical discussion of writing is only interesting to a certain portion of fan writers. We're just lucky enough to be emersed in that section of the fannish community. *g*

...so I'm writing my reviews carefully because I know that pretty much the only people who'd have interest in these concrits are vidders themselves.

And yet, here I am. *g*

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I would say the popularity of VividCon indicates there is -- and a significant portion of our membership are non-vidders who love vids, myself included.

o.0 buh? I mean, I realize that VVC had non-vidding membership, but I didn't realize that so few vidders were going...but then again, I guess I was just comparing this to a science convention, which besides BAScon is the only con experience I've had.

not on the level of your kind of concrit, which is more sophisticated and intimidating

...

::blinks::

::had no clue::

but I think you're limiting your potential audience unnecessarily

or in effect, replace the right words and it's the connecting to the audience discussion all over again: Do I go for the more general review in hopes of hitting more people, or do I go for the specific concrit in hopes of being more effective? ::wry grin:: In this regard, I would rather it be effective, and to do that I'm tailoring it to the vidder.

_{...so I'm writing my reviews carefully because I know that pretty much the only people who'd have interest in these concrits are vidders themselves.}

And yet, here I am.

Which was why I qualified my statement with "pretty much", because I am tailoring my concrit to the vidder and similar vidders I do not demand that there be a wide audience. Note that I am *pleased* that it's of interest at all to a wider audience than I expected, but I'm not *directing* this towards a wide audience. That's not my aim; it's nice, yes, but I was trying to be helpful to the vidder more.

[elynross.livejournal.com]

I mean, I realize that VVC had non-vidding membership, but I didn't realize that so few vidders were going...

I'm not sure how you get from "a significant portion are non-vidders" to "so few vidders [are] going..." Twenty percent is significant. *g* I would guess that most of the members are vidders, but don't assume all of them are. At a rough guess, I'd say a quarter to a third of our members are not vidders themselves. In any case, we very specifically cultivate both viewers and vidders.

::had no clue::

Well, you're talking about timing, about narrative, throwing about vidding vocabulary that the average viewer isn't familiar with. That right there puts your conversation on a level above your average viewer of vids -- and not a few vidders.

Which was why I qualified my statement with "pretty much"...

Yes! My point was simply that the assumption underlying this choice -- that hardly anyone else would be interested but the vidder -- seemed flawed. If nothing else, even other vidders can learn from the criticism of someone else's vid.

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Twenty percent is significant.

in most science conventions I've been to about 90% or more are either practicing researchers or intending to be. so yes, relative to that, it's few.

Well, you're talking about timing, about narrative, throwing about vidding vocabulary that the average viewer isn't familiar with. That right there puts your conversation on a level above your average viewer of vids -- and not a few vidders.

huh. ::feels like has been in bubble::

Yes! My point was simply that the assumption underlying this choice -- that hardly anyone else would be interested but the vidder -- seemed flawed.

::points::

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okay correction, totally misread your note about 20% significance, ignore comment (I'd thought you meant that 20% were *vidders* and I was like o.0)

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And so even now I feel intimidated going into comments on a vid, because I often feel like I lack the vocabulary and the sophistication to be able to say helpful and germane things.

well, here's where I'm drawing a blank, because I'm not sure which vocabulary you're talking about. could you point it out so that I can add it to my blurb up on top?

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huh...umm, so would a vocab list page help?

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heh, will think on it some more then...