SGA; recs and question

[permetaform]

First the recs, 'cause these have been piling up and I need some form of sanity and not being afraid of my bookmarks. ::wry grin::

Assume that these are all SGA and all some form of Sheppard and McKay.


#435, The Atlantis Local Stitch'n'Bitch Chapter by rageprufrock - Wherein John is held close to the righteous female bosom of knitted products, Rodney is too curious for his own good, and plans fail in a spectacular way. (random thought: huh. I just realized this has a lot of what cereta mentions in her post on masculine and feminine spaces. huh.)

The Boys Of Summer by seperis - reads like the first breath of fresh air and feels like sun shining.

Advantage by resonant8 - Aliens make John into Rodney's slave and its both exactly what you expect and entirely surprising all at once.

Beauty by blinkiesays - Skip the notes on this one, the story reveals itself well enough on it's own and it reads like a melody.

The Lending Library by iphignia939 - The summary explains it all: "Naturally, when several hundred people moved to another galaxy, they brought porn." XD

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Stargate Question: Has anyone out there seen a plentiful amount of SG-1?

I'm very curious as to SG-1's interpretation of the Ancients; ie.
both the text and subtext of the Ancient's place/position in the SG-1 universe.

For instance, in SG-1 how were the Ancient's introduced? How are their technology viewed in SG-1, textually and subtextually? How did the SG-1 characters feel about the Ancients and Ancient technology?

Comments

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

At the beginning of SG-1, I think they thought the goa'uld had made the gate system, but this was dispelled pretty quickly (it's the Ancients, or possibly the Asgaard, or possibly the alliance of the two who created the gate system).

I think the earliest suggestion that Earth was an Ancient outpost was the s1 episode "Solitudes" when it turned out there was a second gate on Earth, in Antarctica, that predated the Egyptian gate brought to Earth by Ra. However the implications of there being a second gate were not explored at that time since they really hadn't heard much about the Ancients yet.

The first time we actually heard of the Ancients was the s2 episode "The Fifth Race." Sometime in s1, I believe, they met the Nox (s1 ep "The Nox") and the Asgaard (s1 ep "Thor's Hammer"), who are two of the older races who were allies with the Ancients. (There was a fourth race, the furries or furbies or furlongs or something... see, I can't remember because we never HAVE met them). In the s2 ep "The Fifth Race," The Asgaard told them humanity might become the fifth great race (without mentioning at *all* that humanity looks an awful lot like the Ancients, and seems to be genetically related, and is in fact inhabiting a planet that, if it's not the Ancients' home planet, it is one of their major colonies). The Ancients are known to have experimented with time travel (see "Window of Opportunity").

The first Ancient they met was Oma Desala, in the s3 ep "Maternal Instinct." She was ascended, and apparently revered in an underground religion the Jaffa kept secret from the goa'uld. Oma took responsibility for the child Sha're/Amaunet and Apophis had, because he had access to all the knowledge of the goa'uld and was therefore incredibly dangerous. (In the episode "Absolute Power," we learn that Daniel, if exposed to this knowledge, would probably end up nuking Russia. Go figure.) We've met a few more ascended ancients as well, including Sam's boyfriend Orlin, and we've learned some more about Oma. Oma helped Daniel ascend at the end of s5, and he was dead/ascended for all of s6 when Michael Shanks didn't want to be on Stargate anymore. Oma tried to teach him (Daniel, not MS) about the Prime Directive of Ascended Beings, which Daniel kinda thought was a lot of crap, because he wanted to help his friends. Oma is semirebellious in that she helps humans ascend, sometimes, but the rest of the ascended Ancients keep a pretty sharp eye on her, because, as we learned last season (8), she helped Anubis half-ascend, and he became a horribly powerful evil fiend. Daniel tried to defeat Anubis in the s6 finale and Oma slapped him back down the mortal plane naked and amnesiac, because that was just crossing too far over the Prime Directive. (Also: apparently slapping back down the mortal plan is par for the course with punishments among ascended Ancients--but the naked part was Oma's idea.)

In the s6 episode "Frozen," we saw an unascended Ancient for the first time; they found her frozen in Anarctica. This was the surprising revelation that they looked a lot like us, and did have physical bodies. At the end of s7, they discovered the Lost City in Antarctica, which led to the kickoff of the Atlantis series.

[cut for length]

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

The current season of Stargate (s9) along with Atlantis suggests that the timeline of Ancient migration goes something like this:

Like, a billion years ago or something: The Ancients leave this other galaxy that Daniel and Vala found, to come live on Earth. The not-Ancients still back in that galaxy have ascended, sort of, but instead of being all aloof, they want everyone to worship them so they can eat their souls, or something. The ascended Ancients who came to Earth guard our galaxy against these folks, so people on the mortal plane can live without being dominated by superpowerful beings. Unfortunately, the ascended Ancients don't guard against the bad Ancients' mortal minions coming and making a ruckus, because that would be interfering in the mortal plane. So that's the main conflict of SG-1 s9.

Somewhere between ten million and one million years ago: The (unascended) Ancients on Earth pack it in and go to the Pegasus galaxy.

Somewhere between one million and ten thousand years ago: The Ancients in Atlantis are researching ascension. They're at war with the Wraith. If they could just all ascend, they wouldn't be Wraithfood anymore, but for some reason, that solution doesn't work. Despite the fact that Oma Desala is *totally* capable of causing entire planets to ascend (see the s6 finale).

Approximately ten thousand years ago: The unascended Ancients in Atlantis pack it in and head back to Earth. Where they go native and are absorbed into the primitive human population, seeding the ATA gene to come back and make things interesting later on.

...I think that's relatively in order...

[permetaform]

oh wow, thank you for the details, that's useful to know!

Any feelings on the general attitude of SG1 (the show as a whole and the characters within it) towards the Ancients? Like, is it a generally positive attitude? are there ambivalence, and if so where?

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

For a long time the Ancients were totally Absent and Mysterious, which to some extent, they still are. Then they met Oma, and they've regarded her as Good, If Occasionally Frustrating. (She's also become the deus ex machina for Daniel death. He died in s8, and everyone was all, "Jack, are you going to do anything? How about a funeral? Anything?" and Jack kept saying, "Nope, he's done this before, he'll be back." And he was. After spending some time in a metaphorical highway cafe where Oma offered him ascension once again, she tossed him naked into Jack's office. Jack provided a nearby flag to cover his manhood.) Oma (and Shifu, the goauld wunderkind I mentioned) always had zen koan kind of answers for things that Daniel didn't entirely get and Jack didn't get at *all* but imitated hilariously. There's one about a candle and... anyway. It basically amounted to "I can't, and I can't tell you why, but I know more than you do," re: the ascended Ancient non-interference thing. Daniel finding out about Oma's involvement with Anubis was confirmation that she was right, and we haven't really heard from her since (but hey, Daniel has to die *sometime* this season...).

When Daniel was ascended, before he had his falling out with Oma over the extent to which he couldn't interfere, he did visit his old teammates a couple of times, in their hours of need. Unfortunately he couldn't *do* anything about their need, just offer them spirtual comfort. Since they were both dying at the times, they were less than totally thrilled with this. Jack threw a shoe.

There have been signs of desperation in them long before we found out all the things they had to run from--I mentioned the episode "Window of Opportunity" for evidence of time travel yeah? Well, it's time travel that doesn't work, the Ancients of this planet trying to save themselves from extinction, and instead it's stuck on a loop.

Orlin was pretty crazy stalkery--he moved into Sam's house, and due to the being ascended thing, could do that without showing himself to anyone else. But it was like being an Ancient absolved him--Sam was willing to help him when he told her that.

I think the non-interference thing basically drives SG-1 up the wall. Like, "Okay, so you're good, and you're all-powerful, but if you're not gonna do anything about problem X, what good are you?"

[permetaform]

and Jack kept saying, "Nope, he's done this before, he'll be back." And he was. After spending some time in a metaphorical highway cafe where Oma offered him ascension once again, she tossed him naked into Jack's office. Jack provided a nearby flag to cover his manhood.)

o.o wow, SG1 is kinda awesome to it's fangirls....


Unfortunately he couldn't *do* anything about their need, just offer them spirtual comfort. Since they were both dying at the times, they were less than totally thrilled with this. Jack threw a shoe.

::blinks:: wait, really?? XD


I think the non-interference thing basically drives SG-1 up the wall. Like, "Okay, so you're good, and you're all-powerful, but if you're not gonna do anything about problem X, what good are you?"

Ahhh, that makes sense. So it was more of the fact that the Ancients are passive, rather than the active intimation that the Ancients are morally dubious?

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

o.o wow, SG1 is kinda awesome to it's fangirls....


Well, it also pushes the Sam/Jack ship pretty hard. We overlook it. Because Sam was raising an adopted daughter with Janet Frasier before she died.

::blinks:: wait, really?? XD

To check for physicality, yeah. Shoe went right through Daniel.

So it was more of the fact that the Ancients are passive, rather than the active intimation that the Ancients are morally dubious?

Yep.

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

Chaya, by the by, was pretty par for the course in what we get in ascended Ancients. Because the only time we meet ascended Ancients is when they've deviated from the party line of non-interference and been punished. Oma and Orlin were both in varying degrees of doghouse for interfering with the mortal plane, like Chaya.

[permetaform]

Was Chaya treated differently (by the show) than from Oma and Orlin?? ie. were they ever treated with as much suspicion as Chaya?

[jmtorres.livejournal.com]

Hmm. I think Chaya was treated with suspicion because she didn't tell them she was an Ancient upfront, tried to hide her powers. So there was something to be suspicious of, if you see my point.

I think in a meta-sense, they were handled very similarly--yeah, they're glowy forces of goodness, but they still experience personal attraction and lust. Like Chaya, Orlin fixated on Sam, and Oma is always using any excuse to see Daniel in the buff. However, I do wonder if this may be related to them being Ancients who couldn't keep to the code, who were too tied to the affairs of the mortal plane--if ascended Ancients who *do* stick firmly to the Prime Directive don't have any of those sexual feelings.

Another note--I think it could be argued that Chaya's punishment was more lax than Orlin's or Oma's. Orlin was bound to the planet he helped and forced to watch as they used his technological aid to nuke each other senseless. Oma's planet when they first met her in "Maternal Instinct" was inhabited by pretty much one follower. Who had come from somewhere else. Chaya got to have her wish to be guardian over a whole planet, and to actually guard them.