oddness and rambly on many things

[permetaform]

am in a wierd post-period state of wanting to *break* something. It's like some vague unease wherein every post I start and don't finish seems to be a rant on something or other and there's this sense of jitteryness and I haven't been drinking tea since this feeling's started (so it's not the caffeine) and I'm not ticked off at anyone insofar as I consciously know.

I'm wondering if it's because of the post-periodness. am wondering if it's because I've been reading too many wanks. am wondering about the state of being a fen and of being a squeal-y fangirl, about the use of the glomp and the hugs and the fannish flirtatiousness that may or may-not be uncomfortable to people and yet. and yet what is fandom sometimes but a group of people who've found a specific outlet to be mentally and emotionally touched?

It took me until senior year HS to realize that I was touch-starved, and whereas physically that was easy-ish to accomplish (with glomp friendly close friends) and yet sometimes in other ways it was hard to connect, because even as I've made peace with the fact that my mind worked in very strange ways and with the idea that I'm a bit of a freak (ie. not the same; ie. don't think the same; ie. don't communicate the same) and even as I can mostly tamp down the strangeness in mixed company, well...it makes communication difficult, yanno?

what is a ::glomp::? a ::hug::?

I think about this:
http://www.livejournal.com/community/100_roadtrips/51810.html#cutid1

and about this:
http://www.livejournal.com/users/fannishly/17777.html?mode=reply&style=mine

and in specific this paragraph:

I'm thinking again of Ed Norton's comment that the modern world has "dark cool irony disease." I don't discount anyone's genuine eye-rolling response to this movie, or to any particular movie or whatever, but in general I do agree that there's a common distaste for earnestness, a tendency to dismiss all sentiment as sentimentality, and an instinct to temper all gravity with humor or with its more mean-spirited incarnations. Humor is like a trump card -- you can always play it and trivialize what someone else finds precious or even sacred. Being able to laugh at something puts you in a superior position to someone else who can't. Cynicism is the most defensible position -- to care is to be vulnerable, not to care is to be impenetrable. To laugh at, however gently, is to consider yourself superior to.

...and I've HAD the "dark cool irony disease" and am every day trying to step away from it. I would rather squee and thus invite others to be silly with me than to forever be cynical, made a very very determined decision several years ago to STOP being...laid back? vague? to stop being *completely* agreeable and mellow and cynical and vaguely sniping. And instead to be willing to be a bit more rash, to state my opinions, and to let myself be ticked off.

But that leaves the underbelly exposed. And I'm not quite comfortable with that I suppose, or perhaps strong enough. and... it's so EASY to slide back into that mentality. so. so. fucking easy.

Norrington hurts me. The putting myself in his POV hurts me in that way that's like watching someone place the key to your cell in a place always unreachable to you. Like letting go of the guy that I loved (thought I loved? I still don't know) to someone that'll probably be better for him than I (and I the better for not letting him have a chance to tear me down) and yet watching them kiss and interact and being *happy* for them and knowing that I'm better off without him but godDAMMIT he was MINE.

It's tricky. And a complicated mess. And if you've ever been weirded-out by a coolish response to a norrington or sparrington comment made in my journal? that's why.

I still don't know completely my thoughts, this is unorganized, maybe I can get some perspective on this with some more objective viewpoints.

But, at the end of it? I will ::glomp:: and ::hug:: and try to be emotionally touchable and squee over stuff in shameless piles of happy because I've noticed, both online and off, that smiling first causes other people to be less afraid to smile.

And I guess that can be considered my fannish manifesto: share the love, so that it grows.

::hugs flist::

[edit] Which I guess, in a way, explains why I get pissed off at the permanent my-policy-is-to-not-feedback-lurkers, who then complain about their fandoms being small. Feedback = more inspiration, and I can only shake my head at the people who don't get this...

[edit2] upon thought, this could be considered an addendum to The Mom post I had a bit back.

Comments

[linaelyn.livejournal.com]

Except, NOT F:LOCKED, my dear.

*hugs*

going back to read the content, now.

[permetaform]

EEEP! ::hugs:: thank you!

[guede-mazaka.livejournal.com]

*Zen connection moment*

I was in the process of trying to decide a few things, like if I want to continue feedbacking authors that I *know* don't reply to comments. Because yeah, I know, busy people, but 'thank you' doesn't take long to type. And I enjoy their fics less because it feels like I'm just throwing roses at an empty stage.

Also, fandom? Is fandom. Is not quality or quantity. Fuck, nobody owns it. Or if anyone has a right to, it's the creators of the canonical source, and not the bloody fans. You can say what you wanna see, but then you have to put up with all the people that don't want to see the way you do. It's just what you do.

*shrugs* Frankly, I've given up on not being cynical. Hell, scientists are some of the brightest, most passionate, pigheaded bastard people I've ever met, and they should be the most objective group. What I try to do is keep my capacity to be surprised by people.

[permetaform]

Because yeah, I know, busy people, but 'thank you' doesn't take long to type. And I enjoy their fics less because it feels like I'm just throwing roses at an empty stage.

::nods:: WORD.

I'm not sure to what part of the post the next paragraph refers to tho...::is confuzzled::

Well, see, there's being cynical because you're not surprised, and then there's tamping down your own joy in order to appear cool and collected. The latter is what I'm referring to.

[karose.livejournal.com]

And this component of the flist *hugs* you.

[permetaform]

::just grins at you and hugs back:: you brighten up my flist.

[khalanasa.livejournal.com]

*hugs*

(While I usually lurk, I hear you on the touching and all.)

Thanks for the honesty.

[permetaform]

::hugs back:: =)

[andtheafterglow.livejournal.com]

we don't really know each other that well, but what the hell. :)

i can identify with a lot of what you've said here..

i find myself, especially recently, opening up more and more to some degree (with a grain of salt, i suppose) within the fandoms i'm involved in. i find people there with whom i share a genuine common interest, and am not friends with them simply because we see each other every day and don't have a choice (ie, high school, college, etc.).

i went through years of being the kind of person who is withdrawn and reclusive, mostly as a result of depression but also because people can be hurtful, and i still am on many levels. but i like that within the fandoms i'm able to just be myself and be accepted, i'm able to SQUEE and GLOMP and all that other fannish stuff and know that everybody else is SQUEEing and GLOMPing right along with me because we all love what we love.

even with all the wank (which i avoid like the plague), i find myself growing quite attached to the fandoms, and more particularly, the people i know within them.. because they *are* my friends, faceless and sometimes even nameless, but friends nonetheless because they aren't there to pass judgment on me and make me feel bad about what makes me squee.

so, lurkers, wankers, and those who just don't understand be damned, because this is too good of a thing to let it be ruined by them.

to quote you: "share the love, so that it grows."

in this day and age, that's all we really can do.

[permetaform]

but i like that within the fandoms i'm able to just be myself and be accepted, i'm able to SQUEE and GLOMP and all that other fannish stuff and know that everybody else is SQUEEing and GLOMPing right along with me because we all love what we love.

yes, exactly! =D

because they aren't there to pass judgment on me and make me feel bad about what makes me squee.

::nods:: Word.

And btw, I'm sending my best wishes for the x-ray thing. I've never had that happen to me before and was not sure how to respond. ::hugs:: be well.

[mistressrenet.livejournal.com]

::hugs you like a huggy thing::

It's absurd. You know, you read-- gah, it's too late at night-- that damn Betty Friedan book, the groundbreaking one, and one of the things she says is that women are always FUCKING LOOKING AT THEMSELVES, wondering what the neighbors will think, making sure their hair's all right, and here we go on LiveJournal and AS FEMINISTS we START FUCKING LOOKING AT OURSELVES and wondering what the neighbors think. WTF? People are affectionate to each other, what crazy shit is this? Women post about their families and lives and children and are REPRESSING THE LESBIANS nevermind that plenty of lesbians have families and lives and children themselves. I thought we were fighting so we could choose how we behave and think, not to have it approved by the fucking committee.

...er...got any kleenex handy? Think I've splooged all over the keyboard.

On a lighter note, I told my husband about that moron on scans_daily and he laughed and laughed and laughed-- he was just telling me about the hot chick in the latest Superman comic. :)

[permetaform]

hee! ::hands you kleenex::

It's both the neighbors thinking (the first wank) and a lesbian being made uncomfortable by the level of online flirting.

Which, again, makes me wonder at their comfort level of acceptable flirting/touching IRL. ::coughsanzo-typecough::

On a lighter note, I told my husband about that moron on [info]scans_daily and he laughed and laughed and laughed-- he was just telling me about the hot chick in the latest Superman comic.

XD DOOODE, that's PRECIOUS!

[nekofreak.livejournal.com]

first off *big huge huggles* and if i ever see you in real life i WILL glomp you :P
question- do you often drink a lot of tea? or caffine? because if you do and then you suddenly stop you could be having withdrawals *snugs* also post pms is a terrible thing ;_;

and after skimming other comments i see feed back is a large topic. this is one of my personal pet peeves because so many people i know don't leave ANY feed back- they say their too shy -_-;; *so don't get me started on that* i personally leave feed back on just about everything i read- even if it's just fangirl "omg i loved it, please write more" kind.
but as far as the author saying thanks- if they do that's nice and if they don't, it doesn't bother me. because i know they saw it and that's what matters to me, is that the author knows that they didn't bust their ass to write something only to have no one comment on it. i could say a lot more on that but i'll leave it there. *huggles* ^^

[permetaform]

first off *big huge huggles* and if i ever see you in real life i WILL glomp you :P

XD make it a promise?

In answer to the question, I've been drinking more tea at home than regularly and when I started getting really twitchy I switched to warm water...so I'm not exactly sure that it's withdrawal.

Too shy to leave feedback? ::boggles:: I mean, I can understand "too lazy" and/or "too busy" but too *shy*??? o.0

::huggles back::

[knightvision.livejournal.com]

smiling first causes other people to be less afraid to smile.

I hear that. So true. ::big ol' bear hug from this side of the FList.:: You have remarkably refreshing views on things, and it was very nice to read, tonight.

[permetaform]

::hugs back:: aww, thanks!

[lierdumoa.livejournal.com]

OMG just had epiphany. About the father because I think my relationship with my dad more closely resembles, or at least causes equal emotional distress as yours with your mom, moreso than my relationship with my mom.

And where I don't think I ever did the "let's be unamused" thing, I know that for example, when I saw Hero there was this split in my perception where on one level I was thinking what a beautiful movie and what a beautiful message and on the other hand there was this voice in the back of my head -- my dad's voice -- telling me to take everything with a grain of salt and look at the whole thing as a propaganda piece, even when I might actually agree with every point made in said propaganda. I think that's the main difference between me and my dad. I think it's okay to believe in something. He doesn't. He's the athiest that makes fun of religious people (and I mean that literally). I think he decided at a young age that if devout Catholics were going to look down on him for having no God than he was going to look down on them for walking around deluding themselves.

I think doesn't that just tire you out after a while? Don't you just want to turn your brain off? I'm guilty of the same thing, though, because my brain never turns off, and I don't ever really want it to, even when I say I do. I just learn to ignore parts of it. I can watch Hero or Braveheart or Gladiator or The Patriot and cynically call them propaganda pieces and on the other hand think if I'd wanted an objective piece that showed me all sides of the issue I'd be watching the news instead of a movie. And I hate watching the news. The news is fucking depressing.

I think of all the times in fandom I've felt so frustrated with and sorry for people and thought how could they not realize when they were being patronized and insulted -- didn't anyone teach them about subtext? and I think that, well, they were a fuck of a lot happier than I was. The fact that I can recognize a veiled insult just makes me a lot more jaded and cynical than the people who can't or won't.

When all's said and done, I'd still rather be smart than happy, but at least I've learned not to begrudge people who think the opposite. Cause that's not buddies.

::dives back into dS happy place::

[permetaform]

::nods:: makes sense.

And ooo, how were hackthis's dS?? (ie. REC DAMN YOU! ::winks::)

[sdwolfpup.livejournal.com]

It's funny because in real life, if I wasn't so shy and worried about what people would think, I would be a hugging machine. I love hugging and touching and being touched, and I tend to be very touchy with my family and close friends. Yet online, I feel more awkward doing it, and I really can't pinpoint why. Probably related to the shyness and worry thing, if I thought about it at all. So, because I don't do it enough, even though sometimes I want to:

*glomps you*

[permetaform]

awwww! ::glomps back::

[dragovianknight.livejournal.com]

::licks your exposed underbelly::

::snuggles the rest of you::*

I am cynical, about many things, but I don't have time for "dark cool irony disease". If being cool means I can't like what I like, then I don't need coolness; it's too bloody much work.

::wanders off to watch cartoons::

*I like the pseudo-physicality on LJ, because IRL it takes me a long time to trust someone enough to let them into my physical space. Yay for being able to glomp and lick and snuggle at will!

[permetaform]

::wiggles exposed underbelly at you::

And yes, much with the pseudo-physicality! Sort of like a 'touch'-stone for fen I guess? =D

[xerne.livejournal.com]

I *hug* online because I don't like to touch in RL. I dunno why that is, but eh, whatever.

Nice ramble, anyway. I like reading fandom_wank, but at the same time I try not to get too cynical about fandom. There are fandoms I don't touch because they scare me a bit -- mostly FMA, though I'm creeping in there slowly -- and fandoms where the people have made me more interested in the source material. (This is why I'm so into Saiyuki at the moment.)

[permetaform]

awww! ::cuddles fellow Saiyuki fan::

part of it is, I think, perhaps almost like codewords or shorthand or emoticons where there's almost no way that your intent could me miscontrued unless they're wildly out of context. It's part of our collective lingo, I think.

[snowyheart.livejournal.com]

Aah, I like your posts, there's always either interesting places to go or interesting things to crunch on.

About the hugs and glomps and things, I'm pretty much touch-starved the way you said you are too. Everytime Gojyo starts draping himself all over people, I notice 'cause that's totally me. Internet space is so -great- because it's the only place where I can actually hug a lot, and people don't mind. I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm so glad that there are so many people around here who are willing to be affectionate, because I just.. I can't be that affectionate in real life, so I like it here.

As for being cynical, or fangirly squee, I think really there's a time and a place for both. Speaking for myself, I'm so naive that I don't see something wrong with a situation until someone else points it out--my viewpoint gets harmful sometimes, and I need the people that can look at a situation from the other direction. Then again, it helps to have the good pointed out too. So I guess the best is just to.. be what you are, even if it makes you exposed. Maybe it's better to feel exposed and true to yourself instead of safe but feeling fake.

(sorry if this sounds weird or I misunderstood a part of your post--it's really late, but I can't make myself sleep, haha)

[permetaform]

I'm sure you know what I mean. I'm so glad that there are so many people around here who are willing to be affectionate, because I just.. I can't be that affectionate in real life, so I like it here.

::nods:: yes! Like, touch as translated through words being a...method of social contact? a touch-stone? the giving of warm-fuzzies?

As for being cynical, or fangirly squee, I think really there's a time and a place for both.

And you're right about the place for both I think, it's just that when they're used too often and in hurtful ways as masks and fronts that's where you'd get in trouble I think.

[ranalore.livejournal.com]

I think I got touched too much as a kid (by complete strangers who seemed to think that the fact I was a cute baby was an excuse to put their hands on me), and that could be one reason I'm as standoffish now as I am, because I have control over who touches me these days (oh, yes, so relate to Sanzo in certain ways). That said, I do get emotionally attached and mentally engaged by a lot of people in fandom, and I like being able to express that attachment with textual representations of physical affection that are difficult for me.

For one thing, and this ties into your later point about cynicism versus genuineness (is that a word? Oh, well, I'm using it), I don't feel like these are required gestures in fandom, as they can be in real life. I don't like being hugged by people who are doing it just because it's expected. I loved being hugged by you because a) it was genuine and b) because our previous interaction had already established that such a gesture was welcome by both of us. I *hug* and *glomp* and *kiss* people online for situations that I would hug or glomp or kiss them offline, if I were a more physically affectionate person. *G* As it is, I usually end up saying to people offline, "If I were a huggy person, I'd hug you right now."

Yeah, I know. I'm so backward. Of course, I also have been known to make threats as signs of affection, so you can never overestimate my level of screwed-upedness. Which, you know, could really explain why I like the fandoms I like, and why I interact with them the way I do.

Moving on....

I think American society itself has suffered from large bouts of "dark cool irony disease." I worry sometimes about genuine expressions of emotion being another thing the right-wing is going to try to claim exclusively, and that those of us not right-wing might let that happen because we're too busy showing how "above it all" we are. It's one reason I continue to "celebrate the cheese" in my fannish love, and sing the praises of beautiful men, and watch certain scenes of certain movies specifically to feel what the scene was meant to make me feel and to just revel in it. Because earnestness, in and of itself, is not a bad thing. And caring is not a bad thing. It's just we tend to associate hurt with bad, and you can get hurt if you care.

Then again, whether you care or not, you're going to die anyway. So you might as well die knowing you lived in more ways than just breathing, yeah?

Which kinda coolly segues into my last point, which is in reference to Norrington and Sparrington and PotC in general. You know how I said I wasn't sure why I wasn't more into the fandom, despite absolutely adoring the movie? Well, I was answering a post Melusina made today and realized that wasn't strictly true. Part of the reason I've never fallen headlong into the fandom is because my favorite character is Will. And some of the first encounters with other PotC fans I had were with outspoken self-styled Norrington fans who bashed Will to hell and back and sneered at those of us who like him. Which really is not the way to win friends and influence people, unless the influence you meant to exert was building up their resistance to your preferred character.

In any case, being avoidy of the fandom since then has allowed me to develop a little independent appreciation for Norrington, though Sparrington still doesn't do it for me by simple virtue of the fact that it doesn't feature my preferred character. Thus, most of the appreciation is being built by the rare Will/Norrington I've run across (or Will/Jack/Norrington, which is just so damn pretty, as is Will/Jack/Elizabeth, but anyway), perhaps in part because my own (obviously frequently incorrect) perception of Norrington writers as anti-Will is neatly diverted when the other person in the pairing is Will. Not that Norrington/Will couldn't be anti-Will, but it's rare enough I haven't seen that yet. Or maybe I only perceive it as rare because I still haven't ventured that far into the fandom, because I don't want a repeat of those first experiences.

And in conclusion, ::hugs::

[permetaform]

EEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! I need to eventually respond to the rest of it but FIRST!

::TACKLES YOU:: another Will fan!! EEEEEEEE!!!!

::waves Will Turner Defense League flag and makes happy noises::

[ladysorka]

Speaking randomly as someone who wasn't touched enough as a kid and comes from a very 'stoic' culture, I actually have a lot of problems going to fandom gatherings. Because suddenly all these strangers are giving me these huge enormous hugs and inside I'm secretly channeling the llama in Emperor's New Groove and screaming "No Touchy!"

...but, uh, those would be my personal space issues, so, um (you wouldn't believe the the number of people that don't believe me when I carefully explain that in Minnesota and Wisconsin you don't touch people. Like, ever.)

Anyway.

[permetaform]

huh, I didn't know that about either you or that geographical area. o.o I know it's probably not the space issues you have in places like Tokyo and New York but, do you know where this might come from??

::is facinated::

also?

::buttprints you from afar:: ;D

[oboros.livejournal.com]

what is a ::glomp::? a ::hug::?

lol! I have that question myself. I love the word ::glomp:: I picture it thus:

You over there - me over here.
Me - pounces and hugs you. Kinda like Ru or Hobbs.
But there seems to be mouth involved too. hrmmmm. Not so sure if my 'friends' would appreciate that. Basically a big sloppy hug!!! =) *big stupid grin*

[permetaform]

=D ::glomps:: exactly!

[wildelamassu.livejournal.com]

I completely second the overirony.

Some things /are/ sacred, lampooned or not.

(And not just the *glomp*.)

[permetaform]

Some things /are/ sacred, lampooned or not.

hear hear!

[aliaswestgate.livejournal.com]

Think of it this way. Gojyo is affectionate with the ikkou. But he keeps his space with everyone else. Notice that? He's very touchy, though you'd not think it the way he acts. He enforces it in very subtle ways.

I see it in myself too. So you're not the only one. Though i'm used to it because of the way i am by nature. I'm from Michigan, which has an odd mix of get in and hug yer stranger type affection, yet keep your distance. But as a loner, and one that's always enforced her own space i'm still seen as somewhat odd(particularly with the intelligent female thing too, damn stereotypes). So you're not alone in that. But i've never really been comfortable with overly affectionate types. Even my exboyf had to get me into any amount of cuddling. Though i miss the lack of cuddling now, it was something i had to warm into.

Fandom types of affection is usually an extenstion of how i see things too. I'm not overly huggy, so my posts are about the same way, unless i know you well. As to the not responding to comments? Well, i leave that up to the author. I tend not to respond much in public forums because, as much as i like 'em. I prefer not to go into much else than full out discussions, not just pure fangirling. Granted, i've done my share of full out fangirling in various places. (just ask those that have seen me at the few conventions i've attended) I'm just not physically affectionate. So you see more grins, and jokes, and laughter.

Just another ramble here, Permeta-san. ^_^;; But you aren't alone.

[permetaform]

::nods:: that makes sense actually.

::BUTTPRINTS:: XD 'cause I don't believe in <3

[solaas.livejournal.com]

Word! Emotions shouldn't be tied down with irony, unless you're actually feeling ironic. A little more real and a little less trying to hard at whatever it is people think is The Right Thing To Convey(tm) would do a heap of good, I think.

[permetaform]

=) yes! ::hugs::

[suzvoy.livejournal.com]

But, at the end of it? I will ::glomp:: and ::hug:: and try to be emotionally touchable and squee over stuff in shameless piles of happy because I've noticed, both online and off, that smiling first causes other people to be less afraid to smile.

Amen! *hugs*

[permetaform]

=D ::hugs back::

[penm.livejournal.com]

It's like some vague unease wherein every post I start and don't finish seems to be a rant on something or other

Yeah.

*hug*

[permetaform]

::hugs back::

[louiselux.livejournal.com]

But, at the end of it? I will ::glomp:: and ::hug:: and try to be emotionally touchable and squee over stuff in shameless piles of happy because I've noticed, both online and off, that smiling first causes other people to be less afraid to smile.

I think this is so true. I like the way you glomp and hug - it makes me feel warm. As a fairly reserved person, it was hard initially in fandom to know how to respond to that particular sort of fannish flirtation, for a want of a better word - I don't attach anything sexual to it but like all flirtation it's often done with the intention of making an emotional connection, of getting a similar response. But more than that, on a fannish level I tihnk that showing that happy enthusiasm encourages other people to do the same. So, yes. Share the love:)

[permetaform]

I like the way you glomp and hug - it makes me feel warm.

awwww! ::glomps you::

[sisabet.livejournal.com]

I, I think that you are wonderful. I think I have od'd on the cool, cynical irony already (30 years of anything can be toxic) and need to just bask in some good old fashioned sincerity.


Also - I owe you comments/thoughts on Da Pretty Vid but it is OH SO PRETTY! That I just gape.

But thoughts - yes - I shall think tonight (at Mom's for the weekend).

[permetaform]

::just GLOMPS you::

[queen-yokozuna.livejournal.com]

::hugs flist::

I feel that, kanzy.

*hugs you right back*

[permetaform]

awww =D ::gets warm bubblies::

[cephy.livejournal.com]

*nodnodnod* "and yet what is fandom sometimes but a group of people who've found a specific outlet to be mentally and emotionally touched?" That’s one of the best descriptions for it I’ve heard yet. I think think most of the reason I get attached to fandoms is because, holy crap, there are people out there who like the same fucked-up things I do!

As for being cynical... I think I’ve spent the last several years actively trying to jade myself towards the world, because being naïve and happy and talkative has got me thoroughly slapped down on a number of occasions. Now the sarcasm comes whether I really want it to or not. Whether this is a good thing or not... well. Dunno.

Hm. I find I must thank you for nudging me out of my latest string of apathy.

*waves support flag and wanders off in a thoughtful mood*

[permetaform]

Hm. I find I must thank you for nudging me out of my latest string of apathy.

aww! ::glomps::